Wind protection

[Michael P Clark]

I am in the tropics and shooting on boats around salt water and sand, and the biggest problem I am having is wind protection. I am dealing with 30 knot winds, and convertibles. I have my shotguns in full(High wind covers and furry) Zeppelin rigs and am still getting wind cutting through. The Lavs have been a nightmare! After day one, I have been trying various techniques with no perfect solution. The wind cuts through no matter what. The shirts are acting like flags and just flapping in the wind. My only solution is to spray down the talent with spray adhesive and stick the shirts to their whole body. Somehow I don't think it's gong to go over too well. I have the lav's basically set up as Zeppelin rigs. I have a piece of high wind over the windscreens(COS-11's) and a rycote overcoat(the fuzzy) over it and still wind breaks through. It's gotten to the point where I have just accepted it and follow the adage of "you see wind you hear wind" It's been cut down significantly, but never "silent. The talent does not like to be fussed with, and I am running out of ideas. He is getting tired of changing mics to try something different, and I am getting a lot of "deal with it". This is probably as "reality" as you can get, and no second chances. Walk in and roll on whatever you get. No stopping to change, so get it right the first time, or change it next location, and cross your fingers. " Any suggestions? The Micro cats don't work either by the way under clothes, it's just clothing noise every time.

Thanks

[jason porter]

I have used the Rycote Lav Jammers to much success.  30+ knot winds on ships out at sea! (north Atlantic in March!)

What kind of clothing are they wearing?  Do the mics have to be concealed?

I just plopped the windjammer on the Sanken and taped it to the inside of the t-shirt collar.  Clothing noise was minimal, but we all know how that goes (always different!)

goodluck...

[David Waelder]

I've worked on boats a few times with mostly good results but I don't have any magic bullets.

As I recall, the one picture with extensive on the water shooting was recorded largely with a Sennheiser MKH 805 or 815. I think that mike is a bit more forgiving of wind than some others; it may be a bit less sensitive at the extreme low end than some more modern designs. I do recall that I would routinely have to tape up the areas where the windjammer seams would come together. Ideally the velcro closures would seal tight but in practice I found that wind would sneak in around the edges and tape would help.

No good advice on protecting the wireless other than the obvious wind protection gizmos like the Rycote overcovers and the windjammers you are already using.

Using the Tram/Sonotrims, I have had good luck simply wedging a piece of acoustifoam into the space between the mike and the vampire clip. But I don't know if that would be useful in heavy wind out on the water.

And, of course, you should experiment with high pass filters and low frequency roll-off. This would be a good situation to up the LF filter position on your transmitters. (But, probably you already tried that.)

You might also want to contact Dave McJunkin. He recently covered a Transpac race and would probably have good suggestions. His experiences are written up in the LSC journal so the guys at LSC ought to be able to put you in touch with him.

David Waelder

[Glen Trew]

... The Micro cats don't work either by the way under clothes, it's just clothing noise every time.

Thanks

In my tests also noticed that the MicroCats can make rustling noise when under clothes, which is why I was surprised to hear from so many mixers using them under clothes successfully. But the reason is that, when the wind is high enough to need MicroCats, the noise of the wind against the clothes and the trees and everything else is often enough to mask the relatively small amount of rustle.

Glen Trew

[TSanders]

Try using a Hush Lav over the COS-11.

[FSBELLA]

Michael,

a couple thoughts.

with your shotgun Mic, maybe keep the int. foam windscreen on in the zep/hi-wind and jammer setup.

windtech makes a BG series foam windscreen, (double the normal thickness of a regular windscreen) that might work under yr zep setup as well.

with the cos-11, it might just be to omni for your environment. can you change lavs? maybe try a directional lav (senn me-104) or the B6 and the lav wj's (psc & remote audio) or if you have trams, turn them in, with the mesh ws facing the vamp clip. then lav wj's on it.

good luck.

[Sergio Sanmiguel]

with your shotgun Mic, maybe keep the int. foam windscreen on in the zep/hi-wind and jammer setup.

windtech makes a BG series foam windscreen, (double the normal thickness of a regular windscreen) that might work under yr zep setup as well.

Reindhart makes an all foam zeppelin called the Soft-Zep...

They also have wind protection for lavs with velcro at the bottom. No exactly what you want to see on screen...

[Don Barto]

Kind of big and heavy for some clothing, but I've had good luck with these on Trams in the wind:

http://www.trammicrophones.com/sales/detail.asp?partno=TR-MC2

[cmgoodin]

The picture looks like the talent just finished blow-drying his pet angora mouse.  I don't think these were designed for anyone who is to appear on camera.

----Courtney

[rich]

The picture looks like the talent just finished blow-drying his pet angora mouse.  I don't think these were designed for anyone who is to appear on camera.

----Courtney

i dont know. i might get an angora mousehair jumper made up fro talent to wear on windy scenes to hide the wind cover :-)

seriously. ive been impressed with the performance of the dpa windshields for the 4063. i think that it attached to the metal shield helps a little to create a bit of air space around the mic head. it seems to hide quite well, certainly better than i expected.

[Michael P Clark]

Thanks for all the input. The winds finally died down to about 20 knots and I was fine. It was really the gusts, that I swear were well over 30 knots sometimes that broke through the extreme layers of wind protection I employed. 

Another reason to have several styles of mics. I have one Sonotrim, but didn't bring it, thinking I had plenty of Sanken backups in case one went down, and I prefer mounting Sankens over the flat style mics.

[FSBELLA]

Thanks for all the input. The winds finally died down to about 20 knots and I was fine. It was really the gusts, that I swear were well over 30 knots sometimes that broke through the extreme layers of wind protection I employed. 

Another reason to have several styles of mics. I have one Sonotrim, but didn't bring it, thinking I had plenty of Sanken backups in case one went down, and I prefer mounting Sankens over the flat style mics.

what did you end up using, for the lavs & yr boom mic??

thnx

[Michael P Clark]

Hi Frank,

I continued to use what I was doing. I didn't have the Sonotrim with me so I couldn't try the Vamp clip technique. I had B6's but I don't like those for exteriors, and the DPA mic I have is for the Zaxcom which was used as a ST feed. The boom mic was still the CS3e, no backup other that a couple Schoeps being used in an M/S rig. The foam I have, will not fit on my mic and suspension unless surgery is employed. I will have to wait for a new foam to try that technique. The winds thankfully died down, to 15-25 knots. Apparently it was some of the worst winds they had in the West Indies for years, during that time of year. When the locals say it's bad, it's bad. We had 20 foot swells, for 6 hours on our first trip at sea. 

I was using pieces of a torn up High Wind cover and Overcoats and wrapped up the windscreen of the COS-11 inside the rubber mount. Basically making a Zeppelin rig for the lav. Made for a larger foot print, but I decided seeing some bump in shirts is better than hearing the wind.  It was amazingly good in some situations and tolerable in others. Head on winds were not an issue, it was mostly the side winds that became the issue. The wind would cut through the button holes of the shirts. The shirt would make it's own noise, like a flag flapping in the wind. And from what the captains tell me, as in a sail, the winds will pick up speed when going through the button slits in the shirts. Most of the shirts were Rayon, very thin and light, and one was a poly/cotton blend. After the third straight wear, I convinced him to burn the shirt! Too noisy, let alone carrying a bag over his shoulder like he was permanently wearing a seat belt, ALL DAY. Very challenging from a lav placement situation.

Jason, I would be curious as to what technique you use out in 30+ knot winds?

Again, Thanks for the help.

[miker71]

Reindhart makes an all foam zeppelin called the Soft-Zep...

They also have wind protection for lavs with velcro at the bottom. No exactly what you want to see on screen...

I've been checking out the Reinhardt website, they have an interesting demo of the Soft-Zep in high wind conditions. However, they demo a ME66 in the Soft-Zep and a MKH60 in the "other" wind protection (presumably Rycote). Still, the results are interesting ....

http://www.reinhardt-film.com/Soft-Zep.php

(scroll down for the tests)

[FSBELLA]

I've been checking out the Reinhardt website, they have an interesting demo of the Soft-Zep in high wind conditions. However, they demo a ME66 in the Soft-Zep and a MKH60 in the "other" wind protection (presumably Rycote). Still, the results are interesting ....

http://www.reinhardt-film.com/Soft-Zep.php

(scroll down for the tests)

Miker,

impressive. the clip with the mkh60  was in very windy conditions.

[Brian Milliken]

Seen this thread on this Forum ?

http://www.jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=328.0

Regards Brian

[Jeff Wexler]

The two most interesting windscreens I have seen presented here are the Cinela windscreen (can be seen here at: http://www.jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=2501.0) and the SoftZep (which can be seen: http://www.reinhardt-film.com/Soft-Zep.php).

The Cinela is most appealing because it incorporates what I believe are the most important elements: the shape of the windscreen itself and the air space around the microphone. This is very much in the mode of the windscreens that Don Coufal has designed over the years.

The SoftZep could be interesting in its simplicity but I am not so sure it wouldn't adversely affect the polar pattern and frequency response of the microphone.

-  Jeff Wexler

[Guest klingklang]

I like the reinhardt windshield. At least it´s the first company that puts real-world demo-recordings with video on their website.

Has someone tired it yet?

The normal non-furr cover of the cinela looks exactly like the rain protector for the WindPac. Is this the same material? Has someone used the cinela yet? Wiling to post some recordings similar to the reinhardt ones?