akfreak Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Copyright and contracts can be very cryptic. However there are very specific key points that the lawyers always visit to see if you have a case. I would be interested to hear some more specific information about Jacks contract.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " my understanding (disclaimer: which could be wrong!) I believe " that's why there are courts, as there are (at least) two interpretations that need to be adjudicated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC Sound Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 You own the copyright as soon as you press record button, simply put it's your work (unless you signed a contract stating otherwise). -I'm surprised this didn't come up sooner. Unless you sign a contract in advance that designates ownership and rights to whomever, the person hitting the button is the owner... +1 to everyone suggesting to hold onto some or all files with sketchy clients. A $30 thumb drive and a stamp is cheaper than court fees. I had a sketchy client producing a feature film in which the crew received a small amount of contracted payment every Friday and a large lump sum (the second half) of pay 14 days after last days of production. Having been warned by a producer to be cautious ahead of time helped me come to the decision to withhold all sound footage until payment was made in full. I sent a scratch track to camera for dailies and to get a start on their edit, so they could still work on the project. Sure enough, when wrap came around we started hearing 'We're going to have to push payments, blah blah.' 'No problem! You can send me a hard drive with my final check and I'll return it with your mix tracks (once the check clears, of course). I was paid in full very shortly thereafter. What one could get in trouble for is if a Mixer *hypothetically* still held onto a few days of footage containing pivotal plot points/ larger actors until the REST of the crew and cast were also paid in full. In this *hypothetical* situation, the Mixer's contract stated dates by which the Mixer would be paid. Since those dates came and went beyond a reasonable range, the contract was null and void anyway, though..... Hypothetically, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markfarrowaudiopost Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Its been 6 months and its the principal of it now. How many people has she screwed over in the past? Not sure but my guess from her attitude and the way she has been dealing with this is I am not the first. Will I see the money? From what I am being told its unlikely. But I will make sure that she knows that I don't take crap from no one. This dog isn't going down without a fight. Time to muddy the clients name on Social Media Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 I think you guys are right (Matt Martin etc). At the college radio station I work at, this came up for some reason I can't remember. We owned the performance rights because we mixed and recorded it, but acknowledged it was them performing their songs. I think it was in regards to a band selling a recording of their live set to a label (without our permission), and that we couldn't just put out a cd of their live songs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 That was from a lawyer the university had, so I can see how your recording of their script and actors would still be your work, unless your deal memo states otherwise (if you had one)..... And them not paying you means the deal is broken anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 " We owned the performance rights because we mixed and recorded it, " I'm not going to argue with what your lawyer said about a specific situation, but folks should note that every situation is different, and there is a lot of "it depends" involved ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Rose Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 We owned the performance rights because we mixed and recorded it Are you sure those are the words your lawyer used? I've always understood "performance rights" to be short for "public performance rights", which belong to the composer and lyricist, usually through their publishing company, and usually represented by the Performing Rights Societies (ASCAM, BMI, and SESAC in the US). This covers any public performance of the words and music, by any musician. in any arrangement... along with public exhibitions of recordings of the songs (see below). I've always understood the "master rights" and "reproduction rights" to be those belonging to the recording company (i.e., your college's station), and covering the rights to THAT recording of THAT specific performance. What the (P) indicates on a CD. What I've got to clear if I'm going to mix your station's recording into a film track, and then make release prints or DVDs. There's also sync rights in a film track, which is the composer/lyricist's right to control derivative works (i.e., visual sequences) based on the song. But that's another issue. IANAL. If your lawyer used different terms, I'd like to know it for my own education. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted August 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Just an update - attorney's letter was just sent. Waiting on a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 "Kick his ass, Seabass!" Good luck Jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 "Kick his ass, Seabass!" Good luck Jack. +1 LEF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joyce Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 good luck...why do they refuse to make the balance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 I assure you, Jack, that you own copyright to your recording until they complete payment, and, you release it to them. they clearly and legally do not have the right to use your recording commerically until then. but you do need to register your form PA with the Library of Congress before suing them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Lots of great free legal advice here. Be advised that it may be worth about as much as you're paying for it. For instance, you don't own a copyright on the contents of the recording, that belongs to the person, or persons, who created that content -- or their assigns. If you do own a copyright it would be to the recording, rather than the contents of the recording. Therefore, I doubt that a form PA would apply; more likely it would be a form SR, but I'd want to research that further before being certain. Legally, it could demonstrate "bad faith" on your part, laying claim to a copyright that isn't yours. If anyone goes this route, be careful to only claim rights that you're entitled to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpro Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 Another suggestion, sic the Mike "the Senator" on them. They would pay you just to get rid of him!! David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted August 30, 2013 Report Share Posted August 30, 2013 The mention of (Texas/insert your state) Workforce Commission help me once in the past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 Lots of great free legal advice here. Be advised that it may be worth about as much as you're paying for it. For instance, you don't own a copyright on the contents of the recording, that belongs to the person, or persons, who created that content -- or their assigns. If you do own a copyright it would be to the recording, rather than the contents of the recording. Therefore, I doubt that a form PA would apply; more likely it would be a form SR, but I'd want to research that further before being certain. Legally, it could demonstrate "bad faith" on your part, laying claim to a copyright that isn't yours. If anyone goes this route, be careful to only claim rights that you're entitled to. I am the business partner to an experienced entertainment and intellectual property attorney in a development company. I checked with him regarding copyright rules. You are the copyright holder of the sound recording of the performance in question fromthe moment you hit record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 " You are the copyright holder of the sound recording of the performance in question fromthe moment you hit record.... " ... until..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 I am the business partner to an experienced entertainment and intellectual property attorney in a development company. I checked with him regarding copyright rules. You are the copyright holder of the sound recording of the performance in question fromthe moment you hit record. That echos what I said. You own a copyright to the RECORDING (form SR), not the PERFORMANCE contained on the recording (form PA). That is, of course, until the copyright ownership is transferred by virtue of whatever contractual agreement you have with the entity who hired you. IANAL-ADWTBO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 IANAL = I AM NOT A LAWYER ADWTBO - I'm having difficulty here John, ADW - I find ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON TBO - TO BE HONEST WTF ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 31, 2013 Report Share Posted August 31, 2013 IANAL = I AM NOT A LAWYER ADWTBO - I'm having difficulty here John, ADW - I find ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON TBO - TO BE HONEST WTF ? And Don't Want To Be One! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 And Don't Want To Be One! TSCAJB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted September 1, 2013 Report Share Posted September 1, 2013 TSCAJB I'm thinking JB is John B So what is TSCA ? here are the official suggestions from acronymattic.com The Toxic Substance Control Act **** The Traditional Small Craft Association *** Toronto School of Circus Arts *** To Subscribe to the California *** Texas Standardized Credentialing Application *** Toxics Substances Control Act *** Toxic Substances and Control Act *** The Toxics Substances Control Act *** Tyagarah Sustainable Community Alliance *** Timing Single Channel Analyzer ** triple semicircular canal ablation ** Toxic Substance Control Agreement ** Toxics Substance Control Act ** The Traditional Siamese Cat Association ** Toxic substance and control Act ** The Society of Chinese Artists ** The Toxics Substance Control Act ** Takuro Someya Contemporary Art ** Tamil Senior Citizens Association ** Testing Committee to the Administrator ** Toxic Substances Conversation Act ** TriState College of Acupuncture ** Texas School Counseling Association ** Texas School Counselors Association ** Texas Sporting Clays Association ** Tennessee School Counselor Association ** Torrance Sister City Association ** Texas State Callers Association ** Tax Sheltered Custodial Accounts ** Toxic Sustances Control Act ** Teaching Service Conciliation and Arbitration ** Treasury Stock Current Assets ** Texas School Counselor Association ** Torbay Self Catering Association ** Times Square Center Associates ** Toxic Substances Control Agreement ** Toxic Substance Control Acts * Tasmanian School Canteen Association * Telecommunications Systems Control Association * Tennessee School Counselors Association * Thermally Stimulated Current Analysis * Temecula Sister City Association * Total Ship Computing Architecture * Trustees of the Sisters of Charity of Australia * Tsing Sha Control Area * The Small Computers in the Arts * The Solar Cooking Archive * This Site Covers it All * I'm going with This Site Covers it All Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosdeaf Posted September 13, 2015 Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Jack....how did this play out, could you please update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted September 13, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 13, 2015 Jack....how did this play out, could you please update? II never did receive final payment. Attorney letters were returned as undeliverable via certified mail. Several attempted phone calls and emails from my attorney were ignored. I ended up just writing off the loss on my taxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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