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regarding anonymity


Jeff Wexler

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Guest klingklang

In times of data-harvesters like google that never delete anything I think anonymity is a high value on the net. The big difference between a message board and a room where people meet is the fact that the net is 100% public across the whole planet and there are numerous companies that do nothing but collect data to produce user-profiles to sell that data for commercial purposes. Dare I say NSA data-mining scandals over the last years or Google´s intransparency about what they do with your data.

Look at the stats-page of this board. That is all personal data being published, scanned by search engines and stored for ever.

Some say: Why not? I have nothing to hide!

Well yes: That´s about the same argument that people say when the state makes new laws to spy on people telling everybody this is all for public security.

Do you let everyone search your house saying "sure come in, I have nothing to hide"?

Anonymity on the net is not about hiding, it´s about retaining a certain amount of pirvacy and to protect yourself from being scanned all the time, everywhere and stored for eternity. It´s about self-determination (not sure if this is the correct english word).

Stupid or rude postings won´t go away by asking users to enter a "real" name (whatever that means on the net anyway)

Dumb people are all over the world and so they will also be around in forums like this one. They come and go. So what. The "real" name. Won´t change a thing.

But if this is about weird names like mine. I´d happily change my nickname to "Peter Smith" or "Herbert Birdfoot" anytime if it feels better.

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Anonymity on the net is not about hiding, it´s about retaining a certain amount of pirvacy and to protect yourself from being scanned all the time, everywhere and stored for eternity. It´s about self-determination (not sure if this is the correct english word).

Stupid or rude postings won´t go away by asking users to enter a "real" name (whatever that means on the net anyway)

This has gotten very confusing and convoluted as terms like anonymity, privacy, internet exposure, who is watching who, all get thrown out there. As soon as you have a Social Security number, or pay your taxes, or ever serve in the military, you have started the whole process. The Internet has just made it a lot easier to keep tabs on a whole lot more people on a global level. For a forum like this, the simple use of a disposable email address or one that you don't care what happens to it, is usually sufficient to avoid a lot of the things you mention. But this does not address the central issue I originally brought up about knowing something about the people who post here --- credible and verifiable things.

Now, let's drop it because all this fighting is giving me a headache.

BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYONE: keep on using this forum if you enjoy the experience, be courteous and thoughtful, whomever you are or whatever you call yourself.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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Wow. I never saw any of this developing as it has. Too bad. I will miss AFMY's. I think he over reacted, but thats the handicap to this style of communication.  I read a post and hear one thing, and you hear something else. The beauty of this style of communication is we can all participate with without having to travel great distances to do so. As for the big announcement, it is a good one.

CrewC

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Now, let's drop it because all this fighting is giving me a headache.

BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYONE: keep on using this forum if you enjoy the experience, be courteous and thoughtful, whomever you are or whatever you call yourself.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

well said

Michael

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Wow. I never saw any of this developing as it has.

As for the big announcement, it is a good one.

CrewC

Thank you Crew...  as always you have a unique way of inspiring me to try and do the right thing, or at least to think about things from a different perspective. I value your input here and our friendship all these years.

-  Jeff Wexler

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There have been a couple of comparisons throughout this thread (a great read, BTW) between the written (or typed) word and meeting in person (as in a coffee shop setting, etc.)...

One thing writing allows us is the ability to "edit" our thoughts before we post them for the world (or this small corner of it) to see.  Some participants practice this to a greater degree than others, but for most of us it's an opportunity to put our best foot forward when communicating ideas with our peers -- regardless of how complicated or simple, friendly or adversarial those thoughts are. 

I personally write much more eloquently than I speak most of the time -- not that I'm any great charismatic writer by any means -- but it's a great way to avoid the pitfalls of speaking in real time on subjects that usually require more than a passive level of involvement.  I knew what I wanted to say here before I started typing, but I guarantee it will take much more time to write it out and "proff read" it (that was intentional, BTW)... than it will take to speak it.

We're not rocket surgeons, but nor are we fast food workers -- what we do is interesting, complicated, extremely rewarding and frustrating at times... and it warrants the existence of forums like this.

I too am curious as to the identity of AFMY -- solely because his/her contributions to this forum (and my career as a result) have changed my view to a degree.  However, if AFMY's anonymity is that important, it certainly shouldn't bother us enough to drive him/her away.  I'm not that curious.

--tt

(tom taylor)

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After getting to know a number of the participants here -- some of whom I've met in person, and some I haven't, I feel compelled to throw in my four cents worth (inflation, you know).

When you walk into a restaurant (or visit any place of business, for that matter), there is an ambiance that either directly, or sometimes indirectly, reflects the management of the establishment.  It's an undeniable attitude and atmosphere that permeates from the top down.

This forum is no different.

In this thread, I've read comments about search and seizure intrusion, standing behind opinions wearing a mask (an oxymoron, if I ever heard one), and how some may see this hangout as just another impersonal venue in which to voice opinions.  My experience tells me that I probably speak for most here when I say, this ISN'T just another venue.

This place is NOT impersonal.  It's VERY personal, and it IS more than just another web group.  This is a special forum.  After all, this is where many of us hang out in between RAMPS parties.

If this were a restaurant, Jeff would run it the way he thinks a restaurant should be run (and he'd have MAC computers at every table).  He would, no doubt, listen to everyone with an opinion about how his eatery should be helmed:  He'd hear a small band of us whine about the MAC-centric bent, he'd entertain the input of how no one should wear shoes and the beer should be free, and he'd at least consider someone's idea of non-stop polka music (at 97dB @3ft on axis).  However, if Chef Jeff tried to simultaneously sell 99 cent cheapo burgers, $300 champagne, jello-filled tacos, slimy fish sandwiches, and 3 course dinners highlighted by an entree of quail under glass, his eatery would summarily bomb.  You can't be all things to all people.  In trying to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one.

This is a terrific forum, and it's the personal touch from the vast majority here that helps to make it such.  (No comments, please, about a "half-vast" majority.)

What JWsound.net offers is special.  It's Jeff's establishment and he's wise not to try to be all things to all people.  Instead, he should focus on it being what his vision says it should be -- and, for that matter, what it already is to most of us: a really cool place to learn, share, commiserate, and hang out.

John Blankenship

(And finally, after years of self therapy, proud of it!)

Oh, and C.A.S. -- proud of that, too.

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  • 6 months later...

Since some breath has been blown into this thread, I'll chime in, I think it predates my signing up for this board anyway.

I am very pleased with this group and the years of experience that regularly vent, question or answer as the case may be.

I initially found the group while searching for answers to one of my many questions.  Very rarely do I run into a problem that hasn't been addressed somewhere on the internet before and again I appreciate your collective wisdom.

Another site that often has great answers from great pro's refused my participation for the afore mentioned reasoning...REAL NAMES ONLY.

Not to fight the system I explained my case that the name I have worked under and am best known for is not my birth name.  I admit I may have frustrated the webmaster by thinking I was cleverly trying to outwit a computer library of known aliases, not a real person!

But to think that Hugh Holesome was a malicious or sexual handle I found absurd.

Hugh Holesome

MOAS=Mic On A Stick

www.miconastick.com

Detroit, MI (for now!)

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HAHA - I just found the email from "the site"

I told you that we are a realnames-only site and that we take that very seriously. I also told you that names like "Hugh Holesome" and "Mike Onastick" are not going to fly. What part of this is more than you are able to understand???

You don't have to like it or do it but we reserve the right to blow you out of the site -- and have.

Keep it up and I will ban you at the IP level.

Bye.

In any event, I read YOUR posts and evaluate if it makes sense in my career or situation...anonymous or not, the truth is out there.

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  • 1 month later...

anonymity when talking union vs. employer on a public board may be advantageous to the individual with opinions that may get him blacklisted by the employer or his agents.

political ( = where does the money flow) ideas should carry weight by the strength of the argument, not the individual behind it.  Folks in L600, where politics is at least articulated, are well aware of blacklisting attempts by the "powers that be". This is not just blacklisting  like "we will make sure you are not working", but also like : "we will kick you out of the industry". Ask Gary Dunham, former elected President of L 600 who for pure political reasons has been forced out of L600 and been replaced by the obedient lap dogs.

Maybe Jeff you should look for exceptions to the rule.

wolf

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  • 1 year later...

I am requesting once again that those few people on this group who have not yet identified themselves by use of a real name, hopefully their own, should really consider doing so now.

I've been a lurker for a little while.

Just signed up....finally.

Brian Miklas in NYC.  Hello to All.

I know Dan Izen has mentioned to me to join JWSound for a while now...

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  • 4 months later...

Somehow I missed posting on this thread.  I do see the reasons for anonymity.  Companies like Apple and I assume everyone else in the tech industry comb forums constantly for any post by anyone ever associated with the company and if they think you have talked out of school then you get a big brother email.  Out of school in their book basically means saying anything about Apple.  I don't mean to pick on them because I'm sure it's common practice with all of the bigger players.  My general opinion is that I like to know who's saying what because it gives me some way to evaluate how likely the info is to be useful.  It's no guarantee and IF you read enough posts by XXZZYY then you also have a feeling for the quality of info.  I have opinions and I own them.  People may disagree but that is fine.  The anonymous nature of a lot of forums ups the "violence" level, IMHO, a lot.  I tend to use the same moniker everywhere so it really doesn't matter that much.  I was moderating a forum what did distribution trees (old radio shows) and we wanted to have people put their phone numbers in the membership list because when the tree would break down it was sometimes very hard to track things down and a phone call would have been quick and easy.  It was a private members only list so it wasn't out in the public, but most of the membership was too paranoid about privacy.  As a test me and another member volunteered to do a test and we gave each other 24 hours to find out as much as possible about each other.  Neither of us had ever met and we couldn't use any paid services.  We both came back with full names, addresses and phone numbers.  She managed to get a bunch of photos of me I only fount a few of her (and her children).  I found all her elementary and high schools and when and where she graduated from college.  And two or three of her employers including current and where her husband worked.  She found a bio work history (the non film parts were a bit harder to get then) and my schools and five or six prior residences and that I was married.

The point is that we didn't know what we were doing and we got huge results in 24 hours.  There is very little privacy on the web IF someone wants to find out who you are.  A moniker is not a firewall, it wont keep you anonymous from someone who is determined.  And the chief argument for it is that it will keep you anonymous from folks who are trying to find out who you are.  Nobody has expressed any great worries that Jeff know who they are.  It's those big companies and other organizations.  Well here's the scoop IF they want to know who you are they already DO.  So relax, kick back and have a homebrew.  Don't waste energy trying to protect something you lost when you got a social Security card, and for many of you that was the day you were born.

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  • 8 months later...

Yeah  Here in NZ we recently had the 1st firing due to the firee's comments on facebook, it opens up a whole ethical can of worms that I would suggest lean towards protecting what little privacy, or illusion of it we have, on an open, stored and analyzed place such as the internet.

  I recently searched my own name and was quite shocked at some of the things it came up with.  Another recent occurance was posting something fairly contentious on facebook to receive a comment almost immediately from a local fairly high profile producer that I'm friends with on and offline - it gave me a start and a kickup the read about considering what I put out there in a public forum.

So there's a strong arguement for posting under a pseudonym or whatever, However.... I come and read this forum regularly, I feel privileged to learn from the pros here and have learnt some useful things.  I agree strongly with the notion that a 'vibe' is created - really it's the very interpretation of 'forum' and I think that vibe is created on jwsound.net by people backing up their points with their exposure of their experience.

Interesting, maybe, considering that since gearslutz banned political discussion the general vibe of that board seems to be heading screaming downhill, maybe it's related maybe it's not?

Best wishes for the new year!

Joel Anscombe-Smith

Sound Editor / Location Sound

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  • 1 month later...

I know of a few cases where people were fired or disciplined for comments made on the net. And I also know of cases where employers do Google searches to check up on prospective hires to see if there's any dirty laundry out there.

I think the best strategy is: don't say anything online that you wouldn't say right to the other person's face. When in doubt, either omit the other person's name (and the company name), and be careful about what you say.

--Marc W.

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