Experience with TC over wireless only

[RadoStefanov]

Hi Constantin!

A timecode signal is a complex signal that is hard for wireless systems to reproduce.

Here you can see a waveform of a proper timecode signal (generated by an Ambient ACL203, Lockit):

TC-Lockit.jpg

And after being send by a 1000 USD wireless system:

TC-Radio.jpg

Some cameras (and other timecode reader) do have problems to read such a signal (2nd picture).

The Ambient TC-TRX is designed to reproduce a proper square signal (1st picture) to minimize reading errors.

Other benefits of the TC-TRX over "cheap wireless systems":

- cheaper than "cheap wireless systems" (less than 350 USD for 2 transceivers)

- low power consumption (+100 hours with 2 AA batteries)

- transceiver system (to change master/slave without swapping TX/RX-units)

Best,

Tom

Tom, do you work for ambient?

Thank you.

[mulluysavage]

I mean these when I refer to the ACN wireless only. These don't generate, right?

http://www.ambient.de/en/products/ambient-recording/clockit-timecode/tc-transceiver.html

[Boomboom]

Mulluysavage
This is the older system (TRX series, actually) and is not compatible with the ACN system.
And no, there's no generator inside these units so you got to be constantly in range to get TC.
Yes indeed, like if you were using a G2 or Comtek to pass TC.
There's a slate that's got a built-in Rx to use with that system you got in the picture AND they're working on their next slate that will become part of the newer ACN system.

To be clearer: the ACN system uses a proprietary "mesh network 2.4GHz signal" (as mentionned on their website) as opposed to this system you're interested in that offers three choices of frequencies from which to buy (315/418/433 MHz, to your choice; either one or the other, NOT a 3-position selector on the units).

 

SO:

ACN system: newer system / 2.4 GHz / generates TC once wirelessly jammed / similar to TCBuddy or zaxnet systems / Slate with built-in Rx still in development

TRX series: older system / available in 3 freqs / does not generate TC / similar to using audio TC via G2-3s or Comteks / Slate available with built-in Rx

 

Hope that clear things up for you. :-)

 

PS: I must add, a slate from Denecke is also in development (think it's in the FCC offices for final approval - ? ) that will have a built-in TCBuddy Rx.

[Derek H]

What ever happened to the zaxcom/denecke collaboration I wonder. Hopefully still in the works.

[RadoStefanov]

Derek, I just Velcro an erx100tcd on the back of my denecke slate, run it in read mode and have no problems. It doesn't add that mach extra weight or size.

[Wandering Ear]

I believe Derek was referring to Denecke implementing Zaxnet info on the slates, including scene and take. It would be cool, but I believe its way on the back burner.

[John Blankenship]

...but I believe its way on the back burner.

 

I hadn't heard that.  Do you have some updated information?

[Wandering Ear]

I hadn't heard that. Do you have some updated information?

I'm not a direct source, so I could be wrong, but earlier this year I heard the same thing from Charlie I heard quite a while ago, which is he'd like to do it, but other things he's working on are higher priorities and taking up his time. My conversation with him gave me the impression it was on the back burner.

[John Blankenship]

I'm not a direct source, so I could be wrong, but earlier this year I heard the same thing from Charlie I heard quite a while ago, which is he'd like to do it, but other things he's working on are higher priorities and taking up his time. My conversation with him gave me the impression it was on the back burner.

 

I didn't get the same impression last time I spoke with him.  Charlie can certainly speak for himself if he wishes to clarify, or maybe leave it a mystery for now.

[Cloud Wang]

I heard the same too from Charlie for displaying that zaxnet thing couple weeks ago. But to be honestly , expecting CA clapping the board then stop for two or more seconds just for showing the scene and take number on tc slate(which are already written down on the slate) ? i doubt they have the patient. 

 

but i'm definitely looking forward to seeing that timecode buddy built in RX in the denecke slate for a consistent tc wireless jamming. that would be wonderful.

[VASI]

From what I have see Denecke, Timecode Buddy and Movie Slate is on with collaboration.

[johnpaul215]

Ambient, TC Buddy, Zaxcom all make systems with a wireless only time code feature: that is, systems that ride on the cameras that don't have generators in them themselves to keep TC synched. These are less expensive, but how reliable are they? If a camera goes out of range of the tx for example, and changes battery or re-boots there, your box isn't really able to do it's job, right? I shot in Times Square the other day with 2 F3s, how would I know my system is working, and not getting mashed by some rogue signal? I'm really comfy with boxes with generators on cameras - set it and forget it. These wireless-only receivers are much cheaper though, so it's tempting. What are people's real-world experiences with these systems?

 

Never used TC Buddy, but I have used the Zaxcom and Ambient. I think they are different enough that you can pick the one that's better for your needs. The Ambient probably works well for REC-RUN situations when an A camera tells other camera(s), and maybe a sound recorder, to turn on. It can work for free run too, but I have a feeling it was conceived for the other use, and it's great for that. I tested the range a bit under indoor and outdoor situations, but I don't remember what I get. It was "good enough" for the job. We used it to keep 2 cameras paired, and I was just mixing to camera. Wasn't my decision to set it up that way, but that company HATED free run TC.  

 

The ERX2TCD holds signal on its own, and adds audio. I recently was working in Pennsylvania and had a 2 camera team that was going to DC to shoot something. It was unexpected, and I didn't have my Denecke sync boxes with me (I normally jam cameras from my bag). I put fresh AA lithiums in my ERX, taped the power switch on and handed it to camera. That way they could keep the cameras in sync that day and even jammed the next morning. It wouldn't matter if they drifted a little from me, but the cameras they were using are not the best at TC, so being able to carry the ERX worked out perfectly. 

[RadoStefanov]

"Taped the power switch" I hate the big power switch for on camera jam box. I wish the erx came in two models , small trx style switches on the ones that I use on camera and big ones for ifb

[Wandering Ear]

I didn't get the same impression last time I spoke with him. Charlie can certainly speak for himself if he wishes to clarify, or maybe leave it a mystery for now.

Let's hope you're right. It was just the impression I got. I would love to see this feature developed. The potential is great.

@Rado I agree, I wish there was an ERX model for camera that has a small switch, and a stronger connector.

[TimoK]

Tom, do you work for ambient?

Thank you.

I can tell that he isn't.

 

Mulluysavage

This is the older system (TRX series, actually) and is not compatible with the ACN system.

And no, there's no generator inside these units so you got to be constantly in range to get TC.

Yes indeed, like if you were using a G2 or Comtek to pass TC.

There's a slate that's got a built-in Rx to use with that system you got in the picture AND they're working on their next slate that will become part of the newer ACN system.

To be clearer: the ACN system uses a proprietary "mesh network 2.4GHz signal" (as mentionned on their website) as opposed to this system you're interested in that offers three choices of frequencies from which to buy (315/418/433 MHz, to your choice; either one or the other, NOT a 3-position selector on the units).

 

SO:

ACN system: newer system / 2.4 GHz / generates TC once wirelessly jammed / similar to TCBuddy or zaxnet systems / Slate with built-in Rx still in development

TRX series: older system / available in 3 freqs / does not generate TC / similar to using audio TC via G2-3s or Comteks / Slate available with built-in Rx

 

Hope that clear things up for you. :-)

 

PS: I must add, a slate from Denecke is also in development (think it's in the FCC offices for final approval - ? ) that will have a built-in TCBuddy Rx.

 

Thanks Pierre that's correct with one tiny addition.

With firmware 3.1 the unit you chose as ACN Master will resend smaller timestamps every 4 seconds and keep everything Linesync. When you get out of range you still have the accuracy of a Lockit Box...

 

My personal opinion is that.I never would recommend wireless record run tc as set spanning TC source. Not with our system nor with any other. I would only recommend wireless TC for display use because... well, you just never know.... That's the reason why Guenter and Chris invented the Lockit boxes some 20 years ago.

 

But what I learned in the last years is that this is still a common workflow in several countries. That's why we implemented the generator buffered Rec Run TC mode to the ACN devices. It still runs safe on it's internal generator but receives jam commands from the transmitter. I believe our competitors do something similar but in a different way

 

Best

 

Timo

 

P.S. for those who are interested:

 

http://vimeo.com/71959025