chris_bollard Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Would really love to have the meeting before we start shooting -but usually the meeting happens a few days in.... On my last project I was pleased when post asked for mix tracks - two camera 5D network documentary pilot. It was like the old days.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Jeff and Jay (chorused by many others) nailed it in my opinion. I don't see my mix tracks as anything sacred. For productions that will receive proper sound post, my job is to furnish the elements they need to create a good dialog track. Those elements include a mix track, ISO tracks, wild lines, and nat sound and room tone (when the crew cooperates). Beyond that, recording certain specialty sound effects can be an added bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I can recall seeing credits listing "tracking engineer" & "mixing engineer." No ones ego seemed to get bent out of shape about that division of job functions. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think, first of all, the sound post team are not calling the shots. They don't get to decide what you do in your job. If they don't want to use your mix, that's their problem, but as others have hinted they probably will anyway, if you provide it. I feel sorry for the editor for having to drag along all those isos, and having to create their own mix from it. On my current shoot it's the same situation, although here it was the editor who asked me to not provide a mix track. It's mostly just boom anyway, but even when it's not, there's no mix track now, as the director and producers agreed with the editor. However, I am still sending a mono mix to the camera and that will be there for dailies, for the editors and whoever else. It will sit right next to my isos, so effectively it's still there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Working for a reality show I "mix" "record post fader Isos" everything as close to how it is going to sound when broadcasted. I always assume there will be very little post sound if any... that changes my entire way of mixing. But I can tell you 50% of my mix track is almost unusable. Untrained talent screaming and laughing over each other have to be isolated in the final mix. Video editors do that which I have no problem with. They simply turn other tracks down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 "record post fader Isos" when you do that, if you miss something, it is gone; thus many folks prefer prefader ISO's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 "record post fader Isos" when you do that, if you miss something, it is gone; thus many folks prefer prefader ISO's... I think Rado means the mix track is post fader. I could be wrong. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 "record post fader Isos" when you do that, if you miss something, it is gone; thus many folks prefer prefader ISO's... I only do this when I'm dealing with a client that doesn't comprehend what prefade iso means, and what they has to do in the edit later on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Can't understand value of post faders ISOs, unless you essentially just have the all up all the time. Even then, prefader will do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 "record post fader Isos" when you do that, if you miss something, it is gone; thus many folks prefer prefader ISO's... I have backup in my transmitters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think Rado means the mix track is post fader. I could be wrong. CrewC my ISO is post fader. I had to start working post fade isos. Pretty much making sure I have consistent levels on every ISO track. As I mentioned very often there is no post sound mixing or the mix is being done by the video editor. So when I mix and when I watch an episode on cable is exactly the same sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Sometimes when you deal with incompetent editors, post fader isos may just do the trick. I can't recall how may times I have heard edits that contain ALL the tracks (mix and pre-fade isos) all mixed in together make one big mess of phased out sound including bathroom breaks and side dialog. They just imported all the tracks as is and cut it not knowing to mute anything. Giving those editors post fader isos with each track in proper level in respect to each other, actually may give the editors a chance in cutting a decent sounding rough cut. When they import all tracks and have faders at zero, they essentially recreated a mix track. Obviously, you do lose the ability to capture dialog that you fail to bring up in the spur of the moment. It's a tradeoff. I have done a few projects successfully using post fader isos and the editors and audio post team had zero complaints about it. YMMV. This workflow won't work well with certain projects either. Sammy Huen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Very often we shoot on Saturday and it airs on the following Tuesday. There is no color correction. No sound mixing. SOME reality Production companies are short stuffed. Editors are overloaded with work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Obviously, you do lose the ability to capture dialog that you fail to bring up in the spur of the moment. It's a tradeoff. I have done a few projects successfully using post fader isos and the editors and audio post team had zero complaints about it. YMMV. This workflow won't work well with certain projects either. Sammy Huen not with zaxcom... look at it like this: wireless TX recordings is my pre fade ISO multi mono tracks. my nomad is my post fade polyphonic ISO track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Sammy, "audio post team" What is that??? (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 not with zaxcom... look at it like this: wireless TX recordings is my pre fade ISO multi mono tracks. my nomad is my post fade polyphonic ISO track. Yes using Zax recording transmitters will give you that option. However, chances are if the editor don't even know how to handle mix tracks and pre-fader isos, they won't know what to do with the additional 6 or 8 tracks worth of individual isos coming off those transmitters. Sammy Huen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Sammy, "audio post team" What is that??? (: The guy that puts a limiter on the master bus and bounce to disk. Sammy Huen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yes using Zax recording transmitters will give you that option. However, chances are if the editor don't even know how to handle mix tracks and pre-fader isos, they won't know what to do with the additional 6 or 8 tracks worth of individual isos coming off that transmitter. Sammy Huen I hear you. The reason this workflow works for me is that I have an assistant editor on set. I trained him well. We talk about everything. I can just tell him " time code xx:xx:xx:xx use transmitter number 3" he knows how to handle zax cards. He syncs everything and does the cut downs. when footage leaves our office everything is synced,cut down all the right sound is being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think we have drifted away from what was clearly a question about narrative mix tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 When you guys talk about iso's. do you mean just the leaves? So, lavs on separate tracks, and then a mix track of all, plus boom on 1 mix track. If that's the case, what Imwoudl love to see is a mix tracks, a boom track, and then iso's. As in fact, the mix track becomes unusable because the combined noise floor of various mics combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 I have always included a boom track as an ISO..... every source gets an ISO (lav, boom, plant, etc..etc..) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Yes. Every mic gets an ISO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 If that's the case, what Imwoudl love to see is a mix tracks, a boom track, and then iso's. This is standard for narrative work. As in fact, the mix track becomes unusable because the combined noise floor of various mics combined. This sounds like someone bringing all faders/mics up and leaving it be. That's not mixing. That's like walking into a bar and asking the bartender to 1 part of every liquor into a glass. I don't want to drink that and you probably don't want to listen it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 The reason I asked, is because I've seen stuff delivered with no separate boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 This is standard for narrative work. This sounds like someone bringing all faders/mics up and leaving it be. That's not mixing. That's like walking into a bar and asking the bartender to 1 part of every liquor into a glass. I don't want to drink that and you probably don't want to listen it either. when you have 7 talent unscripted shooting a scene for 2 hours that is later being condensed in to a 2 minutes segment mix track track can not cut together.unless you are a Jedi master and can predict the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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