Matt Radlauer Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 This might sound naive but do people really make it in our industry by working for free (NOT INTERNING)?? I was very...no EXTREMELY lucky to get into this business...I went to school for audio and changed careers in my 30's. I was hired by a very busy production company to be a staffer. I did do some intern work prior to the prodution company but my core of experience was in the studio. I learned quickly and had goals to get out on my own within a 2 year window, which I did...Stocking up on gear along the way. Like I said, this might be naive but I'm just curious. We see so many ads for audio guys getting lo/no pay for these "awesome" indie gigs. But these aren't intern jobs...These are actual jobs that the client can't/won't pay for an audio guy on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Futterman Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 The only jobs I've done for free where I made any contacts were student films, though I've lost touch with most of my collegues there. I know people who've gotten lucky from working for no money, but the number of freebies there are where "great opportunity" is total bullshit vs the number where you could make at least ONE good contact is somewhere in the ballpark of 400 to 1. So technically, good things can come from free labor but you can also technically win the lottery two weeks in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Flaitz Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 For me at least, I can only think of one occasion where doing a low paying gig got me good work. Aside from that one time, I've never gotten decent paying jobs from any referrals on the low paying gigs I took starting out. The only referrals I seemed to get (and still get) are for similar $150-$200/day gigs, which I pass on to other people just starting out, or politely refuse. All they did was serve as resume building to apply to real gigs and production houses. That's just my experience. And I should mention that by "free", it's considering getting $150-$200 for gear per day and essentially me working for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 It's not a one-to-one thing, freebies and better work, but getting experience is a good thing. In most places there isn't all that much work of any kind, so finding out how to better do your job in a live-fire situation is often a very good thing, as long as you have some other way of making a living as you go. I sense that the situation in LA is different--so many people trying to get demo work as actors, directors and writers done for nothing that you have to be more careful. I decided a long time ago that freebies had to be their own reward for me--interesting project, interesting people, the chance to go someplace new, the chance to deal with technical issues I hadn't encountered before, and never see it as a promise of or direct pathway to paying work. I think we all agree that that only happens very rarely. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " working for free (NOT INTERNING)?? " and you mean real internships... there are so many pretend internships out there, " We see so many ads for audio guys getting lo/no pay for these "awesome" indie gigs. But these aren't intern jobs...These are actual jobs that the client can't/won't pay for an audio guy on. " "So technically, good things can come from free labor but you can also technically win the lottery two weeks in a row. " " but getting experience is a good thing. " you get experience, and frequently, the experience available on these wanna-be gigs is bad experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " working for free (NOT INTERNING)?? " and you mean real internships... there are so many pretend internships out there, " We see so many ads for audio guys getting lo/no pay for these "awesome" indie gigs. But these aren't intern jobs...These are actual jobs that the client can't/won't pay for an audio guy on. " "So technically, good things can come from free labor but you can also technically win the lottery two weeks in a row. " " but getting experience is a good thing. " you get experience, and frequently, the experience available on these wanna-be gigs is bad experience... Yes, REAL interning, where the mixer teaches you something and at the same time gives you responsibilities that are withing your experience level. The mixer I interned with did this...first day on a commercial shoot. I was running my ass off, cabling, setting up comteks etc. When we were rolling, boom op was working, but I was with the mixer, listening, watching, taking it all in and when we cut, he took the time to teach me and still do his job in the most excellent way. I learned more working with him, than I ever did when I spent time interning at the studios. For me, I think I had a distinct advantage coming into this industry at an older age. Maturity (cough) and life experience really helped me. I had already had jobs/careers that produced an extreme amount of pressure...I had already had job where I had to work in difficult situations with difficult people while keeping a smile on my face. I had already failed at a lot of things in my life and I recognized how to recover from those failures on the positive side of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cujo Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 This: For me, I think I had a distinct advantage coming into this industry at an older age. Maturity (cough) and life experience really helped me. I had already had jobs/careers that produced an extreme amount of pressure...I had already had job where I had to work in difficult situations with difficult people while keeping a smile on my face. I had already failed at a lot of things in my life and I recognized how to recover from those failures on the positive side of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sounddguy Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 I don't expect this type of work to get me real jobs. I have done a few "drama webisodes" because my main stay is corporate work. I wanted to try my wings and push my skills. I was very careful to pick shoots that had some quality to them, not just another zombie shoot. I look at this the same way that I do for producing radio drama. I don't expect much but it's more a creative outlet and if it leads to possible other work great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " Yes, REAL interning, " Real interning must meet certain definitions, including academic credit... there is also apprenticing and OJT possibilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted August 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " Yes, REAL interning, " Real interning must meet certain definitions, including academic credit... there is also apprenticing and OJT possibilities. For me interning was for a grade but turned into OJT and even getting hired as a boom op by that mixer down the road. The most important thing for me was that I was able to establish a professional relationship with several people who had no clue who I was prior. That is what I expected from my internship. And that has blossomed for me to a certain extent. And your right REAL interning should net you a grade or lead to something more tangible than copy/credit and lunch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 +1 What Philip -- and others -- have said. To which I'll add: Once you've learned at least the basics, nothing advances you faster (salary-wise) than valuing your own work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " For me interning was for a grade but turned into OJT and even getting hired as a boom op by that mixer down the road " not unusual! " REAL interning should net you a grade or and lead to something more tangible than copy/credit and lunch... " look up Branon Bragga... he started as an Academy Intern on Star Trek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 The first features I did were very very very low pay. If I made a mistake on those, I didn't really sweat it. In a way they led to me getting better jobs because the crew contacts that I made lead to work. In terms of the producers of those low-budget projects, never heard from any of them again. I don't think they're even in the industry anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 12, 2013 Report Share Posted August 12, 2013 " I don't think they're even in the industry anymore. " were they ever in the industry ? " first features I did " were they ever featured anywhere ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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