Alex Altman Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Ok, so more boom op monitoring talk. I wanted to start a new thread instead of adding to the current "boom op monitoring" one since this is a bit of a different approach. I can't find any mention of wireless intercom systems for wireless boom op setups in older threads, and it is something I have been pondering for a few months now. My current setup is a heavy-duty padded utility belt with a Sound Devices MM-1, Lectro SMQV (for boom transmission), Lectro R1a feeding into the monitor input of the MM-1, and Lectro T1 IFB tx (with mic from Remote Audio modified 7506's plugged into it) for boom op talkback to me. All the Lectro gear is on battery eliminators and powered, with the MM-1 of course, from a NP-L7S. It's a lot of gear to have on a belt, but I have individual Nite-Ize pouches for everything and the weight is distributed quite well. It works well, but I have had range issues with the R1a (I use a T4 on my cart to transmit to my boom op) and T1 back to me. Other folks have cited the really loud pops that the R1a suffers from when dropouts occur, and I always feel bad when my boomer has to endure them. So, I have been thinking about a simpler two-way system with perhaps better range. I was looking at lots of different wireless intercom systems, and am most intrigued by the Telex TR-24 beltpack. It is a 2.4 GHz device, and most interesting to me, doesn't require a base station to operate like many other systems do. However, the base station (BTR-24) is much smaller than many other professional systems, which is nice for cart real-estate. If I want to work out of a bag, the fact that two beltpacks will talk to each other independent of a base station is potentially very cool. The frequency range of the TR-24 isn't stellar unfortunately. The manual states 400 Hz to 5.5 kHz, versus an R1a which has a range of 100 Hz to 10 kHz. Quite a difference, but I'm not sure if it's a deal breaker yet. If my boom op is simply listening to his own mic from the MM-1 instead of a mix, etc. from me, then this frequency range is perfectly suitable for communication between us. Has anyone used wireless intercoms with their boom ops? Any thoughts on pros/cons of the system I described? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tirrell Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Ok, so more boom op monitoring talk. I wanted to start a new thread instead of adding to the current "boom op monitoring" one since this is a bit of a different approach. I can't find any mention of wireless intercom systems for wireless boom op setups in older threads, and it is something I have been pondering for a few months now. My current setup is a heavy-duty padded utility belt with a Sound Devices MM-1, Lectro SMQV (for boom transmission), Lectro R1a feeding into the monitor input of the MM-1, and Lectro T1 IFB tx (with mic from Remote Audio modified 7506's plugged into it) for boom op talkback to me. All the Lectro gear is on battery eliminators and powered, with the MM-1 of course, from a NP-L7S. It's a lot of gear to have on a belt, but I have individual Nite-Ize pouches for everything and the weight is distributed quite well. It works well, but I have had range issues with the R1a (I use a T4 on my cart to transmit to my boom op) and T1 back to me. Other folks have cited the really loud pops that the R1a suffers from when dropouts occur, and I always feel bad when my boomer has to endure them. So, I have been thinking about a simpler two-way system with perhaps better range. I was looking at lots of different wireless intercom systems, and am most intrigued by the Telex TR-24 beltpack. It is a 2.4 GHz device, and most interesting to me, doesn't require a base station to operate like many other systems do. However, the base station (BTR-24) is much smaller than many other professional systems, which is nice for cart real-estate. If I want to work out of a bag, the fact that two beltpacks will talk to each other independent of a base station is potentially very cool. The frequency range of the TR-24 isn't stellar unfortunately. The manual states 400 Hz to 5.5 kHz, versus an R1a which has a range of 100 Hz to 10 kHz. Quite a difference, but I'm not sure if it's a deal breaker yet. If my boom op is simply listening to his own mic from the MM-1 instead of a mix, etc. from me, then this frequency range is perfectly suitable for communication between us. Has anyone used wireless intercoms with their boom ops? Any thoughts on pros/cons of the system I described? Thanks! I am a big fan of telex products for what they do. I have used them in the past as a shooter on sports crews where it is pretty much either telex or clear com. One thing to consider is some of the systems give you a channel 1 channel 2 option which depending on how you configure it may be helpful for cutting down the clutter or running Ifb as some crews use this method. Actually in that world and depending the crew these are often used for both talent IFB on ch2 and crew coms on ch1 (sometimes with low level ifb so we know what to be focusing on), and and the director can chirp in your ear to bark at you to do this or never do that again...... It has actually surprised me that more film and reality crews don't adopt this method as having a single ear telex unit on while shooting is preferable to me for coms to the walki arrangement many use. Also you may consider the base station setup with a separate build. I am thinking of one crew I worked with that kept the telex base stations in a anvil case so that when we rolled up we would pick a spot for it, pop the back and front lids, plug in and put the antennas on and power up all in about 2 minutes. Often it was right at the truck but on some longer or more problematic runs it would be between the truck and field, court, rink etc.... and could be therefor used as more of a relay station, while still providing 16 channels of headsets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Altman Posted August 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 Thanks for the info Geoff. I don't own any 2.4 GHz gear. What is your experience with typical range vs. a Lectro T4 and R1a for instance? I really like your idea of keeping a base station in a portable case and placing it wherever it works best. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like I could potentially double my range with a system like this by having a beltpack on my cart, a base station right on set, and then another beltpack on my boom op. The base station would effectively act like a repeater in a long distance situation, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Altman Posted August 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 Does anyone have some 2.4 GHz Telex experience they could share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 " Any thoughts on pros/cons of the system I described? " it is already part of the discussion on the earlier thread you mention... you are certainly free to try anything you want, but keep in mind that what is widely done already has pretty much evolved as the preferred methods, I can tell you that The Tempest systems (available on choice of 900 MHz or 2.4 GHz) are excellent, and most of my experiences are on the 900 MHz systems of this line... range was really good, especially at outdoor stadiums, but of course it depends on numerous factors. 2.4GHZ might be better indoors, but still depending on many other factors. perhaps you could help me on my project... I'm trying to find something different to replace "wheels"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tirrell Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Thanks for the info Geoff. I don't own any 2.4 GHz gear. What is your experience with typical range vs. a Lectro T4 and R1a for instance? I really like your idea of keeping a base station in a portable case and placing it wherever it works best. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like I could potentially double my range with a system like this by having a beltpack on my cart, a base station right on set, and then another beltpack on my boom op. The base station would effectively act like a repeater in a long distance situation, no? To tell the truth I can't remember if most of the systems I have used were 2.4GHz or the older 900 variety. I believe the one I described was of the older 900 variety and still had pretty good range. And yes you should be able to effectively double the range by moving the base station. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 " the older 900 variety. " there is new stuff on 900 MHz, too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 My experience with the 2.4GHz tempest stuff was that I found the range to be surprisingly excellent. I would be outside the building and quite a ways away from the base station (using the base antenna) before I experienced dropouts. Line of sight, I never had enough distance to get outside the coverage. I found it equal to, and in some cases better than, what I would normally expect from a BTR-800 system. That being said, I don't know that the RF performance in the TR24 series is necessarily on par with the Tempest system, having never used it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 " Any thoughts on pros/cons of the system I described? " ... perhaps you could help me on my project... I'm trying to find something different to replace "wheels"... Teleportation or gyrocopter. Both methods have their drawbacks, however. With a gyrocopter you have those pesky FAA rules, and with teleportation, well... you're never quite sure where you're going to end up and how fragmented you'll be when you arrive. Try walking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 with teleportation, well... you're never quite sure where you're going to end up and how fragmented you'll be when you arrive. There's a reason McCoy hated that thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Altman Posted August 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 I'm not really trying to re-invent the wheel here guys... Rich, that is a very good point about the quality of the headphones that are produced by the intercom companies, but I am looking at systems (like the Telex TR-24 and TR-240) that have 4 pin XLR jacks on the units. The plan would be to build a y-cable for the beltpack with the the "out" going to the monitor input on the Sound Devices MM-1, and the "in" coming from the mic on a pair of modified Sony 7506's. A similar y-cable would be used on my cart to interface with the coms circuit in my CL-9. I tend to work in a way where my boom op only listens to his own mic and not a mix, so he would still be able to judge background sounds on set with high fidelity from the MM-1. I can't imagine how the intercom beltpack would disrupt that, unless it was outputting some constant hiss/noise/piss when not keyed. So yes, I suppose I am looking at one of these wireless intercom systems for communication rather than critical listening. It just seems like I'm running into range issues a lot with my current IFB setup, and it also requires many pieces to work. One beltpack for communication combined with an MM-1 and SMQV seems pretty simple to me, but maybe I'm leaving something out.... Thanks guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 I'm trying to find something different to replace "wheels"... I suggest rockets! And wings!.. actually, in winter on snow or summer on water... Skis! combine with the previous suggestions at your own risk. And in response to the telex question... fine for com... I havent heard any I could use to judge track quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 perhaps you could help me on my project... I'm trying to find something different to replace "wheels"... Treads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 18, 2013 Report Share Posted August 18, 2013 " the Senator suggested mildly, " sorry, it was an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Tirrell Posted August 19, 2013 Report Share Posted August 19, 2013 And in response to the telex question... fine for com... I havent heard any I could use to judge track quality Out of curiosity does anybody out there know is it the quality of the headsets or the the transmission capability of the tx/rx packs? If its the former than a set of modified 7505 cans or the high noise cans with mic would do wonders. This is actually becoming a point of interest for me as I use clear-com and telex pacs fairly often when I shoot multi-cam stuff. And have thought of ponying up for a handful of channels worth for use as coms If I can justify the use... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted August 20, 2013 Report Share Posted August 20, 2013 Alex, I have the exact setup that you do, except for a UM400 for talkback. Custom padded belt, with custom pouches for the bits. My guys have never complained about loud pops. What antenna are you using for the T4? I found that the supplied whip antenna was not working well, since my T4 is buried the cart and struggled to push the signal out to my boom op. When I attached a Sharkfin to the T4, everything got ALOT better, and no issues, as you've described. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Altman Posted August 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2013 Hey, sorry for the slow reply. Rich, I don't think I'm smarter than the folks that have come before me... Technology does change though, and our methods change as well. I think it's fun to imagine new workflows and new ways to implement current technology with what we do. Michael, I am using a Lectro dipole with my T4, which is hoisted up on a mast with the rest of my antennas. Maybe I should give a sharkfin a shot on the next one. For the boom op's talkback, what are you using as a receiver on your cart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael P Clark Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 Alex, I have two UCR411a's as receivers. One for Boom Op, and one for Utility. I'll add, that the only reason I started using the Sharkfin was that my dipoles didn't cover the 470 range that my private line T4 is on. I've discussed this with my guys and they are in agreement that the only time they have received loud "pops" has been when the short BNC antenna cable was not connected. Thought I would ask you if you've tried different cables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 22, 2013 Report Share Posted August 22, 2013 " does anybody out there know is it the quality of the headsets or the the transmission capability of the tx/rx packs? " yes.... ...and yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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