Jump to content

Zaxcom Nomad Auto-Mix


Jack Norflus

Recommended Posts

Allright so i did my first day with 6.01 and automix today. I had 8 loud people around a table talking and laughing and overlapping each other non stop. Had no problem to setup automix and everything went smoothly with 6.01. I used jack's settings. Listening to the mix felt unnatural and i could hear the gating and mics in and out in the middle of a sentence. I look forward to have more occasions to tweak it for better results. I m probably setting something wrong but for now it didn t sound as good as i thought it would. Overlapping seems to do no good for automix.

On a last note, mixing more mics than 6 on a nomad is not fun and i look forward to ad some extra knobs to my rig with the hopefully coming extra faders panel.

That was my day..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 81
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I had 8 loud people around a table talking and laughing and overlapping each other non stop . . . Listening to the mix felt unnatural and i could hear the gating and mics in and out in the middle of a sentence . . .I m probably setting something wrong

Try raising the Mic On Threshold - and raising the attenuation.

All the setting can be tweaked on the fly while recording

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds good jack, i will try that. By raising you re meaning increasing the value from let s say -30 to -20 for example? Thanks!

Yes.

Raising the mic on threshold (ie -25dB to -20dB) will cause the mic to only open at a louder level. So any lower off mic noises wouldn't open the mic. Though you said that these people are loud talkers - this might not help all that much. No gated mixer can tell the difference between actual desired sounds and undesired sounds.

Raising the attenuation (ie -30dB to -20dB) will cause the un-used mics to attenuate less. Meaning that it will not close as much and will not be as jarring. Also you can also try to quicken up the decay (ie 80ms to 20ms) so when a mic will close quicker and you will not here the gate in middle of another persons sentence.

The setting for Auto-Mix will vary slightly in different scenarios - I don't think there is a "magic setting" that will work in all situations. So hopefully you will have a few moments of people chatting before the cameras role to tweak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kind of wish it could go to either one or two.  I was looking to keep my host on out one, and automix the other three people to channel two.  We've had the host separate on channel one for four years so I don't think the editor would be happy if I switched it up now.

 

Ask and ye shall receive. 

 

Software version 6.02 - available on the Zaxcom user forum - adds a matrix to allow you to choose any of the six mix busses to output auto mix on. You can also now assign auto mix to one or multiple busses in any combination.

6.02 also changes the way auto mix ramps up the audio when a new mic is opened.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ask and ye shall receive. 

 

Software version 6.02 - available on the Zaxcom user forum - adds a matrix to allow you to choose any of the six mix busses to output auto mix on. You can also now assign auto mix to one or multiple busses in any combination.

6.02 also changes the way auto mix ramps up the audio when a new mic is opened.

Wonderful!  Thanks Jack for the good news!  Thanks Zaxcom!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ask and ye shall receive.

Software version 6.02 - available on the Zaxcom user forum - adds a matrix to allow you to choose any of the six mix busses to output auto mix on. You can also now assign auto mix to one or multiple busses in any combination.

6.02 also changes the way auto mix ramps up the audio when a new mic is opened.

Sounds great. The ramping up of a channel opening (more of a quick fade rather than hard cut) was going to be something I was going to suggest. Glad they read my mind. Looking forward to checking it out!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I first posted this on the Zax forums. I figured I'd post it here for further discussion:

----------------------------

 

I just wanted to post my first impressions of Automix after briefly using it on a job the other day.

- It worked out fairly well for me but the conditions were not ideal. I was Auto mixing only two unscripted lavs and the two talent were always standing right next to each other so cross talk was an issue. If they were another two feet apart or so I feel it would have worked much better. I'm sure any auto mixer would have acted the same.

- when a mic was opened I felt like the quicker attack times sounded like very hard cuts on the beginning edges of words. Longer attack times only seemed to delay the hard cut. I see there is a new update possibly addressing this. hopefully this adds some sort of very short fade up to help mask the Open. I'll check it out tomorrow.

- Metering. I'd love to hear some new ideas on how to integrate the Automix into the meters better. Currently the Automix screen displays too much info. In my situation I am usually not going to be auto mixing any analog inputs. I have my boom on analog 1 and then would theoretically be using auto mix on my 4 lavs on AES 3-6. Currently the screen always displays all analog inputs and any additional AES channels used making a lot of wasted space. I would love it if there was a way to show only the channels enabled in the Automix plus Outs 1 & 2 (instead of just Out 1). Additionally I only ever really use the card mix screen. (If I am sending a mix out to camera I record those sends as well, so I can monitor those post fade card tracks instead of viewing the actual output meters). Is there anyway to get the Automix indicators (the "A" and the dot) to display on this screen as well? I understand the card tracks can be routed in MANY different configurations, so this may not be easily achieved or possible, but just throwing it out there.

 

Also, I wonder if some sort of band pass filter (side chained) could be added into the Automixer to help it better open only on dialogue versus other sound. Maybe a band pass around 300-500 Hz to 2khz or so would help eliminate the auto mixer opening up on light clothing rustle etc? This probably wouldn't help with cross talk. But would at least make it so the extreme lows and extreme highs aren't taken into consideration when determining if the signal has crossed the threshold? Do other auto mixers do any filtering like this?

All considered, I'm very happy with the start of the Automix. I can see it being very useful, especially for the panel discussion and live event jobs I get from time to time. I'm looking forward to where this feature is headed!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I haven't installed it yet (I'm scared). Just curious - 

 

If I have the "Pan-Copy" set up to route 1/2 -> 3/4 and/or 5/6, will the auto-mix follow?

 

 What about the ENG page where you can route an input "L, C, R" that in turn routing to 1/2? Does it over-write channel 1 where auto mix is routed?

 

please and thank you,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couple of observations - I had auto mix engaged and had routed everything where I wanted it to go. I was just feeding a "mix" to headphones so it wasn't critical. I wasn't happy with how it was working, so I decided to turn off the AutoMix for now and play later. When I turned it off, I lost all the routings to the output(s) effectively eliminating all the sources I had assigned to auto mix. 

 

Can we make it where when turned off we keep the routings and just loose the AutoMix? 

 

Also would like to have the attenuation capable of going as low as -5db. Now it's -10. 

 

I haven't figured out how to use the "A-Mix" "#3" button. Doesn't seem to do anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couple of observations - I had auto mix engaged and had routed everything where I wanted it to go. I was just feeding a "mix" to headphones so it wasn't critical. I wasn't happy with how it was working, so I decided to turn off the AutoMix for now and play later. When I turned it off, I lost all the routings to the output(s) effectively eliminating all the sources I had assigned to auto mix.

Can we make it where when turned off we keep the routings and just loose the AutoMix?

Also would like to have the attenuation capable of going as low as -5db. Now it's -10.

I haven't figured out how to use the "A-Mix" "#3" button. Doesn't seem to do anything.

Jack, I think what Stacy is saying is that in order to use the Automix, you usually would need to deselect any routing to the given output(s) so that only Automixed signals go to those output(s). But then when you turn Automix off, the routing remains as nothing routed to it, so that output and/or card mix track is now dead. I would love to see a simple "Bypass" option in Automix, so if you find it is not working for you, you can quickly bypass it (effectively just opening all the mics as usual) without losing all of your output routing.

Also, using Automix today, I believe I found a bug. My output limiters no longer worked on my Automix outputs (1&2). Also, I believe the card track limiter for my mix track (which was taking its source from the a-Mix output 1) did not work either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been tweaking my settings and I have found I like the attack around 12ms vs the faster attack of 1ms that I was using. I am finding that its a bit smoother of a transition.

Has anyone else tried this?

I have mine around 15ms right now and it sounds better. Do we know, does this attack time refer to the length of a fade up as soon as a mic crosses the threshold? That's what it sounds like to my ear but I'm not totally convinced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jack, I think what Stacy is saying is that in order to use the Automix, you usually would need to deselect any routing to the given output(s) so that only Automixed signals go to those output(s). But then when you turn Automix off, the routing remains as nothing routed to it, so that output and/or card mix track is now dead. I would love to see a simple "Bypass" option in Automix, so if you find it is not working for you, you can quickly bypass it (effectively just opening all the mics as usual) without losing all of your output routing.

 

I understand - But Nomad has 6 output busses that you can use. And auto mix can be routed to any one of the 6 buses. So I cant imagine that all the busses will be in use that you can't have one that is just available for routing auto mix to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, using Automix today, I believe I found a bug. My output limiters no longer worked on my Automix outputs (1&2). Also, I believe the card track limiter for my mix track (which was taking its source from the a-Mix output 1) did not work either.

They are working - this is just a display bug where the white compression line isn't displayed. It is fixed in the current unreleased beta software.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand - But Nomad has 6 output busses that you can use. And auto mix can be routed to any one of the 6 buses. So I cant imagine that all the busses will be in use that you can't have one that is just available for routing auto mix to.

But how do those other output busses help us? For example, today I was using A-Mix on a live streaming panel discussion. I was sending a mono mix (auto mixed) out of output 1&2 direct to camera so it could be embedded and streamed with the video. I was also recording a mono mix track, sourced from output 1.

So to bypass using the other outputs as you mentioned, I would have to unplug my XLRs going to cam and plug them into output 3&4 then re-route my card mix track to be sourced from output 3. Definitely not an option in the middle of a live take. A bypass function is standard on most (all?) auto mixers. The only disable option we currently have (turning automix off) is the hardware equivalent of just pulling the auto mixer's power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They are working - this is just a display bug where the white compression line isn't displayed. It is fixed in the current unreleased beta software.

Ah good to know it was just a display error. I thought I heard it compressing but thought it was possibly the camera's limiter kicking in (I was listening to the camera return) Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Got to use Auto mix for the first time. Four lavs in loud outdoor ambient environment - football stadium and the surrounding event areas.

 

It's a great feature to have and not too hard to setup. I would like to see longer release times, attenuation down to -3db instead of -10db, and a bypass switch so that turning off auto mixer doesn't mute any outputs.

 

If I enter the auto mix menu from the A-MIX button, and then press back it takes me to the main menu. Is there a way for it to remember how I entered the auto mix menu and thus exit the same way? Perhaps the auto mix should be removed from the main menu and only be accessible from the A-MIX button, like the timecode and bus options? This would require removing the ability to access metadata with the A-MIX button when auto mix is turned off. Just a suggestion.

 

Mark O.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have mine around 15ms right now and it sounds better. Do we know, does this attack time refer to the length of a fade up as soon as a mic crosses the threshold? That's what it sounds like to my ear but I'm not totally convinced.

The attack is how long it takes for Auto Mix to ramp up to full level. It will always open a mic immediately. So adjusting the attack and the decay adjusts how smooth a transition will be.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jack, I think what Stacy is saying is that in order to use the Automix, you usually would need to deselect any routing to the given output(s) so that only Automixed signals go to those output(s). But then when you turn Automix off, the routing remains as nothing routed to it, so that output and/or card mix track is now dead. I would love to see a simple "Bypass" option in Automix, so if you find it is not working for you, you can quickly bypass it (effectively just opening all the mics as usual) without losing all of your output routing.

Also, using Automix today, I believe I found a bug. My output limiters no longer worked on my Automix outputs (1&2). Also, I believe the card track limiter for my mix track (which was taking its source from the a-Mix output 1) did not work either.

Thanks Matt. Better wording, however I still don't think it's being communicated what the problem is. I'm speechless (rare).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I played with this again today. I need to be able to disable the AutoMix and not have it kill all the audio. If there's a routing that will enable it, let me know.

 

Here's my work flow - 

I'm bringing in 3 lavs to the Nomad on inputs 2,3, and 4. Boom on input #1. 

I want to exclude the boom (1) from the AutoMix and include the 3 lavs (2,3,4).

 

In the output Bus I select input 1 to Output 1,3,5 (If I have to route XLR's to more than 1 camera)

post-654-0-52573200-1379972144_thumb.jpg

 

I route the output Bus 1 to Card 1 so I can record a Mix to track 1

I Pre-Fader inputs 1-4 to Card 2-5 (remember, track 1 is a Mix)

 

In the AutoMix enables I route inputs 2-4 to Analog and outputs 1,3,5

post-654-0-70312500-1379972180_thumb.jpg

 

Everythings good as long as the AutoMix is in Post Fader. When I turn this to "OFF" I loose all audio except for the boom (that's routed in the output Bus). 

 

Unplugging XLR's and moving to different outputs isn't an option while we're rolling for obvious reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...