Argument with the Script Super..

[old school]

"And most importantly, the script supervisor is in charge of what goes on the slate. He/she can call it whatever they want. You follow them. They're a department head, just like you. You ought not to argue their job with them. "
Robert 

"In regards to "schooling" old timers, what about respecting your elders, it's the Script Supervisors JOB to keep track of all of the scene and takes, as they happen within the filmming day.  Since it's their job, I always defer to their choices, regardless of how I might feel about it".   RVD

Yes and yes. 

CrewC

[Jim Gilchrist]

And yes and yes again.

 

I've recently been second unit mixer on an Emmy nominated new media-style show that you can stream on the internet where there's no slating and file naming is everything. The cameras share my timecode, the script supervisor makes notes and will advise me what he'd like to happen when there's time. There are a ton of false starts and thus a lot of questions. The bonus is we can work together when things cool down to get back in agreement and since I've been doing the show with a 788T it's ability to rename and revise the metadata across all media has proved a real bonus.

 

BTW, I'm a sound mixer or mixer, not a "Soundie." I'm old and cranky and I correct people that insist I'm a "Soundie," whatever that is. I extend the same courtesy to my peers, "Craft Service," "Script Supervisor," etc. Give respect to get it back. I have never been on a gig where the script supervisor didn't help me at least once, often saving my emeffen' bacon. Sometimes many times in a day. It takes no more time to use the proper job title and it pays rewards many times over.

Best regards,

Jim

[studiomprd]

sorry, I'm late ...

" I asked the 2nd AC to advance the slate to take 2.  "

not your job, this is Scripty's domain! (when present!)

" rename my take <scene> - <take> + A.. just to get over the naming convention, "

not your call to make

" As the assistant editor is going though these files, he's assigning them a scene and take number, "

??

nope, s/he should be matching stuff up based on SS's info.

" delete the file from my system, or re-name the next take, "

or you could add the suffix FS to the false start's file name.

" either option is just not good and delays me a tiny bit, "..

deal with it, 

it is up to Scripty

" where I believe it's just not an issue. "

you are the one making it an issue...

 

take your own advice: " just get used to the 'false start' options. "

different script super's may have different styles, but when they are on a gig, as they should be, they are in charge of scene and take numbers, even if it means your files need to be adjusted to match.

 

now to the answers to the OP:

" No sticks no take. That's why the pro machines have a false start. "

exactly, and I could not count the number of times I've been told to "roll sound", or rolled, thinking we were close, only to "hold the roll", requiring DS procedure...

Rich: " still on to the next take? " that is (still) up to the Script Supervisor! (if none, then probably AC and mixer make a joint call, typically as RVD has described....

 

" offense to the term "Crusty Old Scripty"........ you might want to drop that line of thinking, and be happy you have someone that knows what they are doing. " way too many lo/no $$ productions don't even have SS's...

...and that means that you and AC need to work things out...

and, BTW: on many projects, that "Crusty Old Scripty" could easily get that "smart ass mixer" replaced overnight!

(edit: Wyatt posted that while I was typing!)

 

" ...despises the term. "

that is a personal problem !

 

Script Supervisors have always been, and will remain not only my colleagues on set, but also amongst my best friends and allies on gigs.

Edited September 11, 2013 by studiomprd

[al mcguire]

We don't have to be " RIGHT"

we just have to all  agree

 

It was a script supervisor on an episodic who taught me her way of naming scenes and that method has served me well.

Thank you Katie

[enginufuk]

Couple of times I had issues (or more like constructive discussions..) in the past with Script Supervisors and it's good to hear how others work collectively with that specific department since you don't hear much about it around. Regardless, a great share!

 

Thanks,

Engin

[MatthewFreedAudio]

I used to name my files as the Scene and Take Number but doing that leads to this exact problem. In the long run I believe it is better to have all audio files named a unique, sequential name/number. This could be done using a daily name such as "13Y09M11_T01.wav" Your sound report would then have that under "File Name" and under Scene and Take you notate what is on the slate as per the scripty.

What matters is that everyone is on the same page and an accurate accounting of the file names and slates are happening.

Production Sound Mixing for Television, Film, and Commercials.

www.matthewfreed.com

[studiomprd]

Crusty Old Soundie, Beautiful Blond Baywatch Babe, and Crusty Old Script Supervisor....

 

can't we all just get along??

[Wandering Ear]

I agree with RP and RVD.

There is a difference between a take, and a clip. A take includes the action of the scene. A clip is an independent file that could contain anything, our nothing. A false take its just a clip, but it its not another take of the scene. This is why i don't think going up a take number on a false start is a good idea.

To answer part of the op question, if you skip take numbers on false rolls, in post you will end up with what looks like missing footage, causing a panic and searching for take numbers that were skipped. That wastes time figuring out the take was skipped. I've watched it happen. This of course depends on posts workflow.

Lets say you roll sound, but not camera, then you cut. Then you roll again one take number up. That "missing" take will never be synced to picture, since picture doesn't exist, and therefore that take will be "missing" from the editors bin.

Using the false take feature solves this problem by marking this extraneous footage as such.

Of course, as many others have said, this is exactly the script sup's job, to tell the rest of us what and how to label everything that they are tracking. Its not my job to dictate workflow, unless asked to do so.

[traut]

Defer to script.

They can call the next take "purple" for all I care.

Not worth arguing over.

[old school]

Defer to script.

They can call the next take "purple" for all I care.

Not worth arguing over.

+1

CrewC

[stevegrider]

I defer to the script supervisor. I will name a scene or take whatever they want.

If I ever have a false start, I go into the metadata and mark it as a false start. I also change the take number to zero to let edit know not to count it as something to be synced.

[Phil Palmer]

False start.

 

This happens no less than half a dozen times a day on my sets.  And yes, if she wants to call it Purple...It's Purple.  And quite possibly a false start on Purple Take 1.

 

Please don't care about what the camera assistants do.  If their file has no slate on it, and nothing actually happens in the image of that file, they're not going to try and find sound to match what they don't see.  There is a reason why we have script supervisors and I am grateful for their patience and hard work.  

 

And if you think 40+ is crusty...what the heck am I?

 

P

[S Harber]

Mark it as a false start. No one cares really as long as you are all on the same page.

 

My one issue is when we roll and then the scene changes. That does make me get snarky.

 

S

[Philip Perkins]

As a crusty old "soundie" (the label doesn't bother me any) I don't care what script wants to call the take as long as they A: call it SOMETHING (like all files have a name incl false starts), B: COMMUNICATE to ALL concerned what the scene/take is being called (ie don't just tell camera dept) and C: avoid changing their minds about the scene/take name AFTER WE'VE ROLLED, if at all possible.  

 

philp

[afewmoreyears]

Not my project... never is... I will call it whatever they want... I could care less....  I defer.... It's their call... If I disagree, I will state that in a note on the report... Where's the Crafty with my walking tray full of snacks...  Next problem?

[Richard Ragon]

And if you think 40+ is crusty...what the heck am I?

 

I'm used to working on sets where the average age is 20. 

[Whit Norris]

I agree with everyone on the false start. It is easy to mark on the recorders as well as the sound  report via MovieSlate and still keep you metadata correct. I never cared what they called the scene  uguabuga take 4 long as camera sound matched. I do false take all the time... it works no problems from editorial.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Whit

[studiomprd]

" I could care less.... "

how much less could you care ? 

[John Blankenship]

...

A few years back I had an older scripty lady that has been in the biz for 20+ years.

...

As luck would have it, I ran across another scripty of 20+ years on my last shoot.. and we had this small clash again.

...

I'm used to working on sets where the average age is 20. 

 

So, you typically work with script supervisors who've been on the job since birth.

[studiomprd]

" script supervisors who've been on the job since birth. "

well, except those two crusty old ones...

[Eric Shultz]

Very helpful thread! This issue came up the other day on my first non-school-project job. I argued that my having rolled sound had created a file with a take number, so the numbers should advance, and I prevailed! Little did I know... And don't blame my school: I've only just now completed enough preliminaries to take Sound for Film, which starts next month. For those of us who don't yet have years of experience, in the mean time it's great to have the benefit of listening to those who do.

[studiomprd]

" my having rolled sound had created a file with a take number, "

file, yes;  take number, er, not necessarily

" Little did I know... And don't blame my school: "

maybe, maybe not...

beginning movie-makers get a lot of bad habits from working on (other) beginning movie-maker projects!

[Eric Shultz]

...beginning movie-makers get a lot of bad habits from working on (other) beginning movie-maker projects!

No doubt, as I'm finding out, which is why practitioners such as the OP who have the prudence and courage to ask "Is my theory... correct?" are good models for those of us just joining the ranks. That said, let me add that I understand the value of discussion is in addition to and not in place of actual experience on professional-grade projects. All in good time.

[Jeff Wexler]

This prose echoes some of Fury's finest.

[Constantin]

This prose echoes some of Fury's finest.

Except there's no "I" in "Fury"