Chris Woodcock Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 Hey guys need some help setting up an MS matrix in the nomad, need to record some on a job tomorrow. How do you set up a matrix manually as I seem to have some problems getting it to work. Kind regards Chris Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Lets say you're bussing to two outputs: Buss the mid mic input to both outputs. Buss the side mic to the first output normally. Buss the side mic to the second output phase inverted. Output 1 is your left signal, output 2 is your right signal. You can record this 'matrixed' signal, or simply listen to it with a headphone setup. If you have a Nomad LITE, you must buss to an output, and record the output. If you have a 10 or 12, you can matrix direct to card tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted September 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I have a 12 Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 When you say 'need to record some' do you mean MS or LR? ie. Is the delivery required to be MS or LR? Is it that you want to use an MS mic but the production wants LR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted September 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 No production wants MS Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Do you have an MS mic then you don't need the matrix as you can deliver the mid and side recorded simply on two separate tracks. If you have a LR stereo mic and want to deliver MS you'll need to encode to MS M = L+R S = L-R Send both outputs - left and right of the stereo mic to track 1 for Mid Send both outputs to track 2 but phase reverse one of them for the Side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 " No production wants MS " except the ones that want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted September 16, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 " No production wants MS " except the ones that want it. Sorry let me put a comma in my sentence for you. No, production wants MS Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassmagnetic Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Maybe you can just record the mid and side separately to the card tracks which allows post to encode them as a stereo image And setup a m/s headphone monitoring preset much like soundslikejustin outlined but for headphone matrix... Mid to left and right and Side to left and phase inverted to right. To phase invert in the matrix on the Nomad you want the X with a line above it... You get this by pressing the * key..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 But if they want MS, ie an unmatrixed signal, what's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beatty Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Maybe you can just record the mid and side separately to the card tracks which allows post to encode them as a stereo image And setup a m/s headphone monitoring preset much like soundslikejustin outlined but for headphone matrix... Mid to left and right and Side to left and phase inverted to right. To phase invert in the matrix on the Nomad you want the X with a line above it... You get this by pressing the * key..... I tried both of these setups today on a Nomad 10 (updated from Nomad 6) running the latest firmware (6.16) and have come to the conclusion that I don't know how to monitor encoded M/S on this unit. It's nowhere to be found in the manual and Glenn's post in the Zaxcom forum thread did not yield the expected results. The only way I can monitor is to record M/S as unencoded. I have 4 tracks set up as following with mid (CMIT) patched into analog-in 1 and side (MK8) patched into analog-in 2: 1) Mid X-----bus-> Card Track 1, 3, 4 2) Side X----bus-> Card Track 2, 3 3) Side X ---bus-> Card Track 4 Card tracks 1 and 2 compose the unencoded ISO M/S and card tracks 3 and 4 are the encoded M/S pair. Glenn's suggested headphone setup did not allow me to monitor the encoded pair. I double and triple checked to make sure analog faders were reset to the factory defaults, and they were: [L] Card 3, 4 || [R] Card 3, 4 - fader 1 is ganged to both mics; fader 2 has no effect - fading down the mid mic (1) results in no audio being passed through to the headphone mix. I tried routing the mics directly to output busses 1 and 2 inverting the phase of the side mic on output 2 and monitoring those, but had the same results as monitoring on the card tracks. At the moment, the only way I'm confident in recording M/S is monitoring the unencoded pair: [L] Card 1, 2 || [R] Card 1, 2 Inverted If post wants an encoded pair, it's possible to deliver but will eat up 2 additional card tracks. Anyone else having this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Somethings not right here.. if you want to monitor encoded MS as stereo then the instructions from bassmagnetic in your post are correct. Send the M signal to one track, the S signal to another track. Monitor the M card track in both ears, monitor the S card track in both ears but flip the phase, using the star key, in the right ear. That's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Yes, I don't know about the Nomad, but in terms of MS recording, you musn't have the two signals go to the same tracks. It won't work that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beatty Posted November 23, 2013 Report Share Posted November 23, 2013 Yes, I don't know about the Nomad, but in terms of MS recording, you musn't have the two signals go to the same tracks. It won't work that way I'm new to M/S recording, but I from what I understand (and please correct me if I'm wrong in thinking this way) recording encoded M/S means that you must send both mid and side signals to each track, side phase inverted on either track 1 or 2. This creates a hard coded stereo signal with the stereo spread dependent on the ratio of mid mic to side mic gain at the time of recording. If this is true, then my Nomad does not allow me to monitor these tracks with the current-as-of-today firmware. Somethings not right here.. if you want to monitor encoded MS as stereo then the instructions from bassmagnetic in your post are correct. Send the M signal to one track, the S signal to another track. Monitor the M card track in both ears, monitor the S card track in both ears but flip the phase, using the star key, in the right ear. That's it. This is the only way I have found to do it. Routing both mics to card tracks or output busses as an encoded stereo signal and monitoring them does not work like Glenn said it should in the Zaxcom forum. It's not an enormous deal since I know how to encode M/S in post and you have more flexibility this way. Just a caveat for Nomad users that isn't explicitly stated in the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hi Doug, It is possible to record and monitor both encoded and decoded MS in the Nomad. To record and monitor encoded MS you use the procedure outlined in my first post. That means that the two signals need to be decoded by post production and they can decide how much stereo width they want to hear. To record decoded MS - Send the M signal to two card tracks. Send the S signal to the same two card tracks but flip the phase of one of the two tracks using the star key. You will see the line above the "X" when the phase is reversed. This method will record a LR signal, that doesn't need to be decoded, but the level of the Side signal is determined by you. Then to monitor, you assign the first track to your left ear only, and the second track to your right ear only. Personally, I record decoded MS for my documentary jobs these days. I've found that Editors like, and can handle stereo atmoses, but don't really appreciate encoded MS in the edit. They often don't use them at all because they can't hear the stereo width, and one of the tracks "sounds weird".. I record the tracks post fade so I can change the stereo width, so they don't share a fader like your set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beatty Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Hi Andy, There must be something wrong with my Nomad if you are able to monitor decoded MS. I have done exactly what you have suggested and I have no ability to monitor the side mic. My tracks are being recorded post fader. They don't share a fader. This is the bug I'm mentioning to see if it is my Nomad or if other people experience the same thing. *SPECULATION ALERT* I have an early S/N (10059) so it is possible that I have a different DSP that isn't properly suited for monitoring decoded MS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 " I have a different DSP " I doubt that, but maybe the firmware ?? or maybe a failure..? and who do think you ought to contact to find out about it either way..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beatty Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 " I have a different DSP " I doubt that, but maybe the firmware ?? or maybe a failure..? and who do think you ought to contact to find out about it either way..? Ghostbusters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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