studiomprd Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 for checking drift: with three, you get process of elimination Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Nomads clock is a TCXO and is normally very accurate. If a nomad crystal is out of calibration then that is easy to fix. There is no magic to any of this. Nomad and maxx can be jammed just like any other device. Nomad crystals are calibrated at the factory to a reference locked to a GSP signal. Zaxcom time code is just as accurate and reliable as any other time code system. All crystals will drift compared to a different crystal. Problems some times happen because tunable time code systems are tuned to a single tc source that does not exactly match that of the Zaxcom recorder. That is why we recommend RF based time code lock like with the ERX2TCD as its output as it is always correct. Also when recording with a Zaxcom recorder tune the lockit to the recorder if using that system. A man with 2 watches never knows the exact time. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Nomads clock is a TCXO and is normally very accurate. If a nomad crystal is out of calibration then that is easy to fix. There is no magic to any of this. Nomad and maxx can be jammed just like any other device. Nomad crystals are calibrated at the factory to a reference locked to a GSP signal. Zaxcom time code is just as accurate and reliable as any other time code system. All crystals will drift compared to a different crystal. Problems some times happen because tunable time code systems are tuned to a single tc source that does not exactly match that of the Zaxcom recorder. That is why we recommend RF based time code lock like with the ERX2TCD as its output as it is always correct. Also when recording with a Zaxcom recorder tune the lockit to the recorder if using that system. A man with 2 watches never knows the exact time. Glenn Unless both watches are G Shock MTGs that pull the correct time from the Atomic clock transmitted from Colorado 4 times each day...LOL.... I love the proverb though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 If you have been having this issue for a while and your show still have some more days, add 1 more lockit box and attach it to Nomad 2. Problem solved. Everyone will be in perfect sync. Sammy Huen Of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 You would need an ERX to receive the TC from the first Nomad and then output the TC from the ERX to TC in on the second Nomad Correct This is what we ended up doing soon after our failure to launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Nomads clock is a TCXO and is normally very accurate. If a nomad crystal is out of calibration then that is easy to fix. There is no magic to any of this. Nomad and maxx can be jammed just like any other device. Nomad crystals are calibrated at the factory to a reference locked to a GSP signal. Zaxcom time code is just as accurate and reliable as any other time code system. All crystals will drift compared to a different crystal. Problems some times happen because tunable time code systems are tuned to a single tc source that does not exactly match that of the Zaxcom recorder. That is why we recommend RF based time code lock like with the ERX2TCD as its output as it is always correct. Also when recording with a Zaxcom recorder tune the lockit to the recorder if using that system. A man with 2 watches never knows the exact time. Glenn Thank you much for the detailed explanation. My machines clock must be out. I need to remedy this. How/who can calibrate the nomads clock. Can I calibrate it to the same TC source that ambient master clocks and lockit boxes are tuned to? I need my nomad to play well with all these SD and Ambient people in my market. Otherwise I might end up sidelined from entire projects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Call me Monday. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Perfect. Will do. My ernest motivation in this is to ensure that Zaxcom recorders are seen to be just as solid and reliable as other more entrenched brands of recorders, and most importantly, are seen to absolutely play well and nice and with out hiccups with other recorders and timecode products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Perfect. Will do. My ernest motivation in this is to ensure that Zaxcom recorders are seen to be just as solid and reliable as other more entrenched brands of recorders, and most importantly, are seen to absolutely play well and nice and with out hiccups with other recorders and timecode products. +1 I find there is a lot of anxiety about mixing brands on shoots for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 "My ernest motivation in this is to ensure that Zaxcom recorders are seen to be just as solid and reliable as other more entrenched brands of recorders" Understood. But I think your statement is somewhat out of place in terms of "entrenched brands of recorders" --- Zaxcom recorders, in terms of talking about file-based production recorders, are about as entrenched by any measurement, and have played well with all associated entrenched gear for over 16 years --- I know because that's how long I've been using Zaxcom recorders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Paine Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Understood. But I think your statement is somewhat out of place in terms of "entrenched brands of recorders" --- Zaxcom recorders, in terms of talking about file-based production recorders, are about as entrenched by any measurement, and have played well with all associated entrenched gear for over 16 years --- I know because that's how long I've been using Zaxcom recorders. I understand what your saying Jeff, but I know the market that Fieldmixer is talking about and SD products seem to be the expected norm. Not picking sides you understand, just pointing out the market reality. I think Fieldmixers idea of having Nomads be able to wirelessly sync timecode between themselves is a pretty smart idea. Especially on a reality show with many recorders and cameras. And it would seem, on the surface anyways, a pretty easy idea to implement since you can get Nomads with built in IFB and camera hop Tx's I believe ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 If it's true that the Nomad can't jam from received Zaxnet timecode then that seems odd to me given all the other capabilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscottm Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 i've done quite a few series shoots w multiple nomads feeding a couple cameras each and have never encountered drift except when something is set wrong. we fire up the nomads, jam one to the other, jam the cameras and go. business as usual. it's good to check for drift when there's a chance, like after lunch but sometimes we just aren't able to do that when the two units are in different places at different times. even then, by the end of a long day the amount of drift is undetectable by eye. why is it so necessary to jam nomad over zaxnet from another nomad? then both units are on the same zaxnet group and freq which is not a good ideawhen you want to use IFB or other, more constructive uses of zaxnet. i'd just jam the nomads via BNC and if something drifts, get a syncbox until the drifting unit can be identified and calibrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pscottm Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'm jammed to a lockit box jammed from a 788. My nomad is continuously receiving code from the box. Jamming hardwire to nomad2 won't do. Too much drift unfortunately. Complaints from post. just curious, what frame rate are you running? what are the cameras running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Maybe you should just sell your Nomad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 If it's true that the Nomad can't jam from received Zaxnet timecode then that seems odd to me given all the other capabilities. I thought it odd too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 You know.... just a point here but.... out of the 100 times in my life Post said there was an issue.... 98 of them were actually their fault.... same stuff... only on their end... something set wrong, something not working properly, a person there who made a boo boo.... what I am trying to say is there may be NO ISSUE... you just don't know.... You would hope it is as they say... but I am on the fence here.... One of Glenn's recorders funky time code wise?... I would bet on post being possibly out of whack... It is a possibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 "My ernest motivation in this is to ensure that Zaxcom recorders are seen to be just as solid and reliable as other more entrenched brands of recorders" Understood. But I think your statement is somewhat out of place in terms of "entrenched brands of recorders" --- Zaxcom recorders, in terms of talking about file-based production recorders, are about as entrenched by any measurement, and have played well with all associated entrenched gear for over 16 years --- I know because that's how long I've been using Zaxcom recorders. Absolutely! You are correct sir. My statement could could clearly be interpreted as minimizing the overall fantastic work put into zaxcom products over the years, and i respectfully withdraw that inflection, I by no means intend to spread that interpretation. This is exposition between our group here. Its just the strange reality that I unfortunately have to regularly defend the brand and through this group, hope to contribute in a tiny way towards tweaking small details that non zaxcom owners might see as a weakness, that i witness, could and is eagerly jumped on. To clarify again, I don't believe there is an issue between two nomads time code drift wise, it is in the instance where one is taking continuous timecode from an ambient clock and the other is not. As Glenn said, since one machine is accepting code from a particularly tuned clock, the nomad2 in this instance is not taking that tuned pulse code. But, on the positive side, in the vein of continuing improvement, if nomad1 with the lockit box could zaxnet code to nomad2, all would be peachy. And it was peachy today. With an erx. But without it. Not too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Maybe you should just sell your Nomad. Very funny. Nice working with you today;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 just curious, what frame rate are you running? what are the cameras running? 23.976 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 You know.... just a point here but.... out of the 100 times in my life Post said there was an issue.... 98 of them were actually their fault.... same stuff... only on their end... something set wrong, something not working properly, a person there who made a boo boo.... what I am trying to say is there may be NO ISSUE... you just don't know.... You would hope it is as they say... but I am on the fence here.... One of Glenn's recorders funky time code wise?... I would bet on post being possibly out of whack... It is a possibility... Yes. That can absolutely be a possibility, and this post crew are apparently not an A team, but I have visually seen a difference at the end of a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 It drifts about two full seconds per 13 hr day consistently. Little less that one second by lunch. Confirmed by post. Same frame rate obviously That's a huge drift. If it's a classic pull-up issue (23.98 vs. 24.00), or a DF/ND issue, then it'd be about 3 frames per minute, 18 frames per hour, which would be 3 seconds in five hours. I'd do a big factory reset and take some time to jam everything and figure out precisely what is drifting. I also agree with the previous comments that two lockit boxes or Denecke SB-T's would solve the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I will further my testing, and likely have my clock tuned. I thank all who have contributed their two cents to this discussion. In the mean time, if Mark O'Russa is reading this, and concurs, please add "nomad to nomad zaxnet timecode capability" to the wonderful feature request thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Got it. Will add your suggestion to the Feature Requests thread as "TC jam from ZaxNet". Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 It wouldn't be just for nomad to nomad jamming. Imagine you want to chase camera timecode sent from a QRXQIFB or a separate IFB100 unit. If the TRX can do it it seems like the Nomad should be able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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