Preference for Zaxcom, preference for Sound Devices, Choice is good

[old school]

That's right mirror! Meet me in the parking lot after school!...

CrewC

[Mirror]

That's right mirror! Meet me in the parking lot after school!...

CrewC

 

?

[atheisticmystic]

Please, you're not a DEVA owner. Stay out of this.

See, another liability of anonymity; who are you to tell me to leave this thread ?

Nobody !!!

[John Blankenship]

Some of the OP's points lose gravitas by a seeming obsession to prove himself, or herself, right -- like the "I can name names" crap. 

 

PATA is a problem?  Then use a CF card.  I've used 64gb Compact Flash cards as the main drives in both my Deva V and my Nomad 12 for over a year and a half now.  They work great and the last time I checked, large capacity CF cards are not "outdated and are getting hard to find," a point that seems to be perplexing to many according to the OP.  This implementation offers the added benefit that I can start a job on the Deva on my cart and, if I need to be more portable, continue recording the same job using the Nomad, by simply pulling the card from the Deva V and inserting it into the Nomad.

 

I'm not particularly fond of a membrane switch as a record button, so I added a toggle switch to my Nomad kit -- problem solved.

 

Life becomes so much simpler when one quits attacking and spends their energies on finding solutions instead.

 

I also own several pieces of Sound Devices gear and have used several others.  It's quality gear from a good company.  I also own lots of gear from most other companies anyone could mention. 

 

When undertaking equipment purchases, my belief is that one should make the best choice based on personal preference and the job at hand and get to work -- not bellyache because the world hasn't created some perfect solution.  Such whining makes a person sound like a charter member of the entitlement generation.

[greg sextro]

I for one have been wanting to start a petition to encourage Zax to continue to develop the Deva/Fusion software. 

 

As a Nomad user, I have come to appreciate what this machine can do and grimace that these features are not available in the Deva.  I would almost consider a Nomad 12 instead of a Fusion or Deva if I were purchasing a new recorder for a cart based rig.

 

I have had some software suggestions for Zax over the years, and they have all been met with opposition.  I have to believe this is largely because they don't want to touch the software.

 

One other thing for example - regarding the fader expander for the Nomad: I approached Glenn with this very idea a few years ago but for the Fusion.  Now that it's being developed for the Nomad it is my understanding that it won't work with the Deva/Fusion line.  Why the hell not?  This actually makes to sense to me at all...

 

My biggest hope is that when/if Zax is building a new Deva to compete with the PIX 260 that Glenn takes time to listen to us users to hear how the software can be improved.

 

Just my .02 from a Fusion/Nomad and now Maxx user.

[Mirror]

Thank you for helping me make my point, Greg.

[soundslikejustin]

I'm an avid supporter of ZAXCOM products, I admit I have limited experience with Sound Devices products, because I never needed anything they made.  I know many people who use their products and I respect their opinions for why, it's usually a price point.

Really? If anything I'd say Sound Devices is more expensive than Zaxcom. Look at the 664 ($4595) and Nomad Lite ($3995) with roughly the same specs (664 has AES that the Lite doesn't, but the Lite does 96khz blah blah blah). Interesting to get a dealers perspective, thanks.

 

My biggest hope is that when/if Zax is building a new Deva to compete with the PIX 260 that Glenn takes time to listen to us users to hear how the software can be improved.

 

Just my .02 from a Fusion/Nomad and now Maxx user.

Not using graphics elements from Windows 95 and XP would be a great start.

 

Also, maintaining flexibility when needing to add or change GUI elements - the biggest gripe for me with Zaxcom software is that it seems impossible to add anything related to graphics. Not being able to add a red box around the TC for when the Nomad is in REC was an obvious one...but there are plenty of of others. Meanwhile SD revamp their entire GUI to make the screen more readable in sunlight in a few weeks. Yes, Zaxcom solved that issue in hardware, I know. That's not the comparison (protecting my back from incoming arrows).

[Mirror]

Some of the OP's points lose gravitas by a seeming obsession to prove himself, or herself, right -- like the "I can name names" crap. 

 

PATA is a problem?  Then use a CF card.  I've used 64gb Compact Flash cards as the main drives in both my Deva V and my Nomad 12 for over a year and a half now.  They work great and the last time I checked, large capacity CF cards are not "outdated and are getting hard to find," a point that seems to be perplexing to many according to the OP.  This implementation offers the added benefit that I can start a job on the Deva on my cart and, if I need to be more portable, continue recording the same job using the Nomad, by simply pulling the card from the Deva V and inserting it into the Nomad.

 

I'm not particularly fond of a membrane switch as a record button, so I added a toggle switch to my Nomad kit -- problem solved.

 

Life becomes so much simpler when one quits attacking and spends their energies on finding solutions instead.

 

I also own several pieces of Sound Devices gear and have used several others.  It's quality gear from a good company.  I also own lots of gear from most other companies anyone could mention. 

 

When undertaking equipment purchases, my belief is that one should make the best choice based on personal preference and the job at hand and get to work -- not bellyache because the world hasn't created some perfect solution.  Such whining makes a person sound like a charter member of the entitlement generation.

 

You've made a homemade conversion that replaces the main internal PATA hard drive with a CF card?  That's great! Please share the info. on this board.  See Zaxcom, it's not impossible!

 

BTW, John.  I never said that high capacity CF cards were hard to find.  I said firewire 400 card readers are becoming harder to find because they are antiquated.

[Jeff Wexler]

"Not using graphics elements from Windows 95 and XP would be a great start"

 

Now, that's something I can relate to. I have always appreciated that Sound Devices user interface in terms of the look, the  graphics, has always been more modern and Mac-like. 

[Mirror]

 

....

The main thing is this thread is a rant more than a topic. SD n Zax are both good prods. Sleep well.

CrewC

 

 

I want to go back to this point that crew made.  I've never said that these companies don't make good products - they both make excellent products. My point of converting over to SD is that Zaxcom has drifted away from it's original appeal.

[John Blankenship]

You've made a homemade conversion that replaces the main internal PATA hard drive with a CF card?  That's great! Please share the info. on this board.  See Zaxcom, it's not impossible!

 

BTW, John.  I never said that high capacity CF cards were hard to find.  I said firewire 400 card readers are becoming harder to find because they are antiquated.

 

I don't wish to belabor this but you clearly referred to the use of a PATA main drive as "outdated and are getting hard to find."  My point being that since they aren't required for successful operation, and that there's a simple, inexpensive, up-to-date option, it's a fallacious argument. 

 

Further, I wouldn't term using a CF card as an internal drive on a Deva V as a "homemade conversion."  It simply requires an inexpensive, readily available adapter, and a CF card.  I've already shared this information both here at JWSound and on the Zaxcom forum.  Maybe you can hire Senator to do a search for you.

[Mirror]

I don't wish to belabor this but you clearly referred to the use of a PATA main drive as "outdated and are getting hard to find."  My point being that since they aren't required for successful operation, and that there's a simple, inexpensive, up-to-date option, it's a fallacious argument. 

 

Further, I wouldn't term using a CF card as an internal drive on a Deva V as a "homemade conversion."  It simply requires an inexpensive, readily available adapter, and a CF card.  I've already shared this information both here at JWSound and on the Zaxcom forum.  Maybe you can hire Senator to do a search for you.

 

Not fallacious at all. PATA drives ARE "outdated and becoming hard to find. You found a work-a-round, I think that's great.

 

You're last sentence, however, is quite catty. You're better than that.

[John Blankenship]

Not fallacious at all. PATA drives ARE "outdated and becoming hard to find. You found a work-a-round, I think that's great.

 

You're last sentence, however, is quite catty. You're better than that.

 

It was meant to be humorous rather than catty as SM is on constant "do a search" patrol.

[Mirror]

I'm sorry if you took it personal, I did not mean for it to be personal.  It was not meant to offend.  If I offended you, I hope you will forgive me, Glenn.

 

I have been an avid Deva user because I love the interface.  Very user friendly.  I see the Deva becoming obsolete because of hardware issues.   So tell us - give us a glimmer of hope that you are not abandoning the easy touch screen of the Deva.

[glenn]

I would be happy to talk to you about it if you want to give me a call.

 

Glenn

[Tom Visser]

Skimming this thread, I can tell you I for one dislike touch screens.  I am glad that Zaxcom is moving in a different direction.  I'm not so enamored by the actual implementation... shift function membrane buttons, but given a choice between that or touchscreen, I'd go for the button every time.

 

I also hate any device that had meters on the right side, instead of the left where they belong.  This industry-wide preference for right-wing metering has my britches in a bunch.  I refuse to buy another recorder unless it is left of center - I suppose I would settle for a moderate middle position.

[Nick Campbell]

Well, I moved from SD to Zaxcom. I have no bad words about SD- Zaxcom just fitted me better.

When I had a problem with my Maxx Glenn called me personally, on a weekend, and walked me through it. A suggestions I and others have made were implemented onto future Maxx OS releases. Since shifting I have nothing but good words.

The nice thing is no one loses. Both are great products, tried and true on the set.

[RadoStefanov]

I strongly disagree that zaxcom does not talk to mixers on the field. Many of us constantly come up with improvements that are sometimes implemented after a week.

[enginufuk]

Wooow!! This is such a silly discussion. I look at both brands and everything about them BLOWS my mind 99% of the time. I have been making a good living using them and they ALMOST never fail. On top of that they are getting better and better every year!!! 

 

Only two companies guys !!! (well... recorder choice of the majority.) Do you realize how small that number is?

 

Thanks to both companies for their efforts.

 

Engin

[Marc Wielage]

Wow, some hot opinions around here.

 

I used Deva for a long time, and I've used a Sound Devices 744 and 788 for several years at different times. All are great machines, all have quirks and limitations, all have really good points and brilliant/stupid design issues.

 

I think when you manufacture a machine for a very small marketplace, which film & TV sound is, you basically are hand-building machines for a very select group of people. This is not the same thing as, say, Tascam or Fostex when they make a $995 machine for a market of 10,000 users, or Zoom, building a $299 recorder for 50,000 users.

 

My opinion: The Deva 5 series has the problem of being based around a relatively old motherboard, processor, operating system, and drive I/O capability. Glenn was bright enough that even though a lot of the machine was designed almost 10 years ago, it basically works as well today as it did then. As Jeff says above, as long as you replace the drive and take care of the machine, it'll work fine; in fact, you can probably get another ten years out of it.

 

Could a better machine be built today? Sure. But it's always easy to look ten years back and say, "wow, Apple should've done this" or "Microsoft should've done that." The huge failures both companies have had in the last decade show that technology is a very risky business.

 

Glenn has bailed me out of several sticky situations and proved to me that Zaxcom is a stand-up company that does good work. So does Sound Devices, and they've also been quick to give me same-day advice on malfunctions and setup issues. True, the Deva and Nomad are touch-based, which has good and bad points; the Sound Devices depends on numbered menu selections and a scroll wheel, but that can work very, very fast, too. In fact, the things I change the most with the 788 are scene number, routing, and track names, and I can get to those as fast as lightning. It's also easy to do on the Deva. The Deva is cursed with the DB25 connector for outputs (which I hate), but the 788 is cursed with multiple multiple TA3 jacks, which means you're dead if you don't have those particular not-quite-standardized cables. No machine is perfect.

 

I think we're right at the point where everything is about to change again in production sound recorders, with the advent of new technology like Dante. I think all production sound recorders are kind of looking old-fashioned in light of the new interfaces, faster processors, the need for far more tracks, the need for better HUI control (like on an iPad), recording to multiple drives, and making it small and lightweight. Imagine something the size of, say, an Apple TV that just had a power supply, a couple of Dante connections, and a monitor out. Put that on your cart, and you just plug in a monitor, link an iPad to it, connect a mixer, connect a wireless receiver, and you're done. Does this recorder need to cost $10,000? Probably not. 

 

I've seen revolutions happen, where a complete online video conform/finish system used to cost $250,000, and now you can do it for about ten grand. A high-res color-correction system used to cost $750,000; now they're about $50,000. A full-blown Pro Tools HD system cost upwards of $25,000 (plus any analogue gear you wanted to hang off it); now it's maybe a third of that. Visual effects systems used to be proprietary and cost millions of dollars; now they're $10,000 at most and widely available with open architecture. The trend is more power, lower cost, faster speed, greater storage, more off-shelf parts, user serviceability, better reliability. Look at a Deva II and compare it to a Nomad 12 or a 788 and tell me we haven't come a long way in 10 years. And then go back ten years before that and compare it to a Fostex PD4 or a Nagra 4S. Now, that stuff looks like stone knives and bear skins.

 

I bet we'll see some very interesting things at NAB 2014, and I think both Zaxcom and Sound Devices are worthy competitors that will keep the ideas coming. I've said many times, "this is a BMW vs. Mercedes comparison: it all boils down to personal taste." If money were no object, I would have no problem either using a top-of-the-line Deva or a 788 with a top-flight mixer. The recorder might be the thing I worry about the least on the set. I'm worried more about where the mics are, what the set sounds like, and the logistics of the shoot. The recorder, I take for granted. It's just a tool doing a job, a means to an end.

[Olle Sjostrom]

+9000 to Marc.

[BWilson]

I wish my IPhone last's as long as a Deva...

Or my laptop...

Or my TV...

[Tim M]

I see no reason to say Sanders this or that. Although he makes great products he is not those products. I hope to God he doesn't take home statements like these. Zaxcom is a brand and in 'merica that means itself is considered an individual under law... unfortunately and fortunately lol

I did wish they "Zaxcom" supported some older products. I recently sent in a senny 416t from the 70s for repair and in no time I got it back works great. I currently have a stereoline not even a decade old that I was simply told was not supported and could not be repaired... BUT I love the nomad.

[Peter Mega]

For those who feel the 788 menu is slow to scroll through, you can apply "breadcrumbs" next to those menu items you use the most or as many items as you want.

Then, once in the menu, use the fast forward or rewind buttons to "skip" to the next item with a breadcrumb next to it.

To apply the breadcrumb, simply hold the play button while the menu item you want is highlighted. A dot will appear to the right of the item.

You now have a very fast way of skipping to your favourite menu items.

You can also navigate all menus with the buttons in the front of the 788 if you dislike the scroll/push method.

Hold this helps

Peter Mega

[Christian Spaeth]

I currently have a stereoline not even a decade old that I was simply told was not supported and could not be repaired... BUT I love the nomad.

That's quite disappointing. Reminds me of my old G5 and Apple's no-support policy, whereas I can still send an ages-old CR 187 to Lectro for service...

Zaxcom and SD fortunately (for us!) do things rather differently, and that's why we are benefitting from two different approaches to mobile recording. If they did the same thing (which some users seem to want), I doubt both could survive, and that in turn would be bad for our profession. Zax's approach may be more personal, which has good and bad sides. Fast reactions to user requests are good, but the downside is that if they think your request is not worthy, nothing is going to happen. I agree with the point made before about a better visual indication of Nomad's rec status (via display) which would seem like it's not hard to implement, but even though it would be helpful to most users, they seem reluctant to do it.