Mentioning audio problems in heat of moment

[Christian Spaeth]

There's no rule. Sometimes it is good to cut, sometimes the same thing is suicidal. Make your experience, and make sure you ask afterwards (when it's edited) what was bad or problematic, soundwise. This is one thing everybody needs to make their own rules for, since it has to do with the way you and those you work with work and communicate.

[Wandering Ear]

I find it depends on the producer/director you are working with.  I try to figure out what they want, if they want me to interupt or not.  Sometimes interupting the take saves time since they will have to do it over again anyway.  I'm referring to OTF style interviews.

[Crussell]

This is a tough balance.  

 

My threshold usually is wether or not I'd be happy to get my tracks in post.  If I would be unhappy with them, I say something but sometimes that isn't always the right call.  

 

I usually try to make eye contact with the interviewer or producer and shake my head, let them make the call.  They know how it's going to edit together better than I do.  

 

It just depends...

[mikewest]

Politely tell the director (or through a 1st AD if there is one).

 

Honesty is the best policy otherwise it's your job and reputation on the line.

 

A word with the UPM is always wise back at the office too.

 

mike

[afewmoreyears]

There's a time and place for everything.... the experience of this job will tell you when is best and for what situations merit mentioning and to whom... There is no golden rule.. This changes with the environment, job type and personalities involved.. And ten other things...

[ninjafreddan]

Hi guys

 

I've been lurking around this forum for a while gathering good information on rechargeable batteries, lectro systems etc. Much appreciated and helpful information!

 

So I thought I'd share my view on problematic recording situations, how deal with them or best of all, avoid them.

 

I've done dramas and studio recordings before but nowadays when I do ENG-work it's documentaries or reality shows - quick'n'dirty, a couple of lavs, boom, capturing the moment and creating a two-channel mix for the camera.

I really love making documentaries, meeting interesting people, making them open up to the camera. Often it's like opening a good book.

There are of course situations where the sound and picture are compromised and the best way to tackle them is to remember that you and the camera guy are an entity, you're not sound and picture guys, you're a TV- or documentary team and your quest is to capture the best possible experience for the audience. Okay, filming a silly reality show isn't going to put your names in the history book, but it's still work and it needs to be done to the best of your abilities. 

 

And your ability to do a great job tremendously increase if the camera guy and you are playing in the same team. He will get better pics and you will get better sound.

 

So among the first things that I discuss with a camera guy that I haven't worked with before, is the way we are going to film. I want to get the feel of how he's cutting the pictures etc. But most important of all, I tell him that "okay, so when we get into a situation, we go for close-ups, right? Get the action close-up, and then back up for some cut scenes. It has worked very well for the documentaries I've worked on lately". If it's a cocky camera guy (you know the kind) it might turn into a bit of a peeing competition. Silly, but sometimes necessary. So I've been chased by thugs, filmed murder scenes, had bottles thrown at me, had face-downs with crazy dogs. I never back down, simple as that (except when being chased by stoned thugs).

When the camera guy understands that I'm very much interested in the way he's working, partially because it affects the sound quality that I will be getting, but most of all that I want to capture the story, I will earn his respect much faster. Then helping him with the camera stand and all the standard stuff will of course also improve the working relationship.

 

Recently was talking with a camera guy lol but he suggested that I mention when there is an audio bust. The whole show is all about being on the street and getting otf style stuff.

I was like...I only mention when the speech is no longer intelligible because of the situation. He was like... no when it distracts the audience...the problem is that to my ears that happens almost every moment so that conversation ended awkwardly. Besides the first day or so I mentioned problems and the director said that he has dealt with much worse so I only mentioned on major issues.

 

Well, nothing distracts the audience more than not hearing the dialogue. Talk about being left out!

Sounds like the camera guy knows that his pictures will be stock footage without good sound. Yes, you can add subtitles or put a narrative voice on top, but how fun is that for the audience?

The dialogue is equally important, if not even more important than his pictures.

 

Sometimes I politely and with a smile tell them - the camera guy and the on-set producer:

 

"A TV without picture is a radio, whereas a TV without sound...well, it's a furniture."

 

Then they usually get the hang of it.

 

You really need to make camera guys understand that, because sometimes the camera guys only think about their pictures and maybe use the zoom lens to get all the pics they need. Well, the proper way to do street action is to get close-ups of the action, interview people, then back up, film some cut scenes, getting the cut pics take two minutes extra. Then you end up with good audio and good pictures and the editor will have good pictures to cut down the length of the interviews.

I hate when camera guys chicken out and uses the zoom lens, I usually give them a gentle push in the back and start walking forward. When I want to exercise I go to the gym. I only want to extend my boom to four meter when it's really necessary.

 

In this case he's inviting you to signal when you're not getting good dialogue sound, so do it! Tell him to move in closer so that you can position the boom mic correctly.

 

Anyway, how do you guys handle audio issues? Do you interrupt no matter what is going on emotionally or otherwise in specifically a reality type setting? I've heard both ways. I don't interrupt when potentially valuable emotional stuff is happening unless it its a huge issue...most of the time producers pickup there is a problem and I don't need to say anything until they attempt to move on. If talent isn't distracted then I can't see unless it is unintelligible that the audience would be much distracted especially if noise is assumed. Your take? Thx.

 

I know how you feel, but what makes an interview emotional? Filming someone crying or hearing how their voice starts to break up just before breaking into tears? Looking at pictures of a lost child or hearing what a great kid he was?

What will make you laugh? Looking at pictures of kids laughing or hearing them giggle?

If you ask me, most of the emotional impact comes from dialogue and music.

 

Ask yourself this, will the camera guy interrupt when the lighting is too low and the sunlight from the windows in the back are burning out the picture? Will he ask for a new position when the reflections of the team is showing in the shopping windows? Will he work for half an hour to setup an interview situation? Yes, yes, yes!

But wait, your sound is equally important, right? So go on and tell them that you're getting bad dialogue when cars are passing by at 60MPH next to the set, or that you need to move closer to get good audio standing next to a busy street.

Like the camera guy will tell the interviewee to chin up, I will tell them to speak up. Simple stuff like that can really improve the sound quality.

 

There are few situations where I won't interrupt if the audio is compromised. Fixing the problem will often take less than a minute - "excuse me, can you please let your barking dog outside during the shoot?" "how about moving the recording location to behind that hill, then we will be at least 20 meters off the main highway?"

 

NEVER trust the director regarding the sound or picture quality, their job is to capture the moment of something interesting happening. They are already sitting in the cutting room, when you are recording the scene, it's really all they can think of, and that's the reason they are directors or on-set producers. There are of course exceptions and I love the ones that understand the technical side of things, but they are few. 

 

The best camera guys are the ones that also do editing, because they have delt with their own crappy sound from times to times having to explain to the director or client what didn't went so well; and really appreciate having a sound engineer on set. The curled cable that hooks them up with a long-haired sound dude looming around behind them is MUCH better than having to keep track of the sound themselves. But most of all, they know what pictures they need, no more no less. And they know that close-up action is what's needed, then some cut pics. Often they will direct what will happen in the cut pics, because we've already filmed the natural and spontaneous situation and just need some good cut pics.

 

The worst camera guys are the ones that are used to working on their own, setting up two lav mics and not having anything to do with the editing later on. Still, they have to accept the fact that filming TV isn't spontaneous. There will always be technical difficulties with lighting and picture composition. Well, the same goes for sound with acoustics, wind and distance to source.

 

So, in short what to think of when shooting reality TV:

 

* Discuss with the camera guy and on set producer how you are going to work, what you are going to film. Try to indentify possible pitfalls. Maybe you need more gear to make the shooting as efficient as possible? Maybe add one lav mic resulting in swinging boom 10% of the time instead of 90% of the time? Maybe give the on-set producer IEM so that he can hear what you're capturing, that way he will accept when you have to interrupt the shooting.

 

* Have them understand that you are in charge of the sound and responsible for the quality of dialogue. When it's not working, it's not working.

 

* NEVER accept when someone tells you that the sound is okay, when you know it's not. If they don't understand your concern, offer them your sound bag and boom.

 

* Help the camera guy get his pictures by giving him a hint when something interesting is happening off angle, give him a hand with the camera stand if you have one hand free. Help him set up lighting for an interview if he accept it. Good manners will never get you into trouble. If the camera guy is snotty, hit him with kindness. That will throw him off and just look silly.

 

* Always keep your boom in reaching distance, even if you're doing a one or two person interview with lav mics. You never know what might happen or whom might enter the set. If one lav mic dies in a sensitive moment you can always use the boom without having to interrupt the shot. Saved my butt on several occasions.

 

 

Consider this! When the material is being edited, usually a pretty stressed out situation for the producer and editors having both the production company and TV channel suits hanging over their shoulders with high demands, and good stuff end up in the trash can due to poor dialogue sound. Two scenarios might happen, they either call you and ask if anything can be done with the poor dialogue sound; or they never call you again. Pick your scenario.

Your professional pride apart, when someone tells you that the sound is good enough, when it's not, ask yourself if it's worth risking future job offers for.

 

 

I could go on about this, but my kids need attention.

 

 

All the best

Fred

[Benjamin Gandy]

I've only done a couple of unscripted things (and I'm not a fan), and I've always just gone with it unless the dialogue becomes unintelligible, unless the mono-dia-tria-logue can be easily repeated, like a vox pop or an improvised piece. If there's some noise that's of note but not of major concern then I'll make a note and point it out after to the director/dir/DOP/anyone who cares. If it's something diabolical I'll usually point it out there and then, because the track's ruined anyway. I'm also firmly of the school that it's their dialogue, not mine. I have used that as a way of taming some inconsiderate dingbat on set as well – it's their dialogue as much as it is the director's.

 

I think giving as many people IEMs as possible is a very powerful tool – people are much more considerate when they can hear the hum that I'm trying to stop, or that sludge factory across the river that's causing my hair to fall out. When people watch a scene they listen in stereo so can more easily discern voice from noise because of its location, but if everyone listens to an IEM they hear it how you hear it, how it's being recorded, and ultimately how the audience will hear it, ergo they're much more receptive to you suggesting another take, and they're more likely to look your way when they hear a plane, just to see if you're concerned.

[studiomprd]

" The best camera guys are the ones that also do editing, "

er,  sometimes.

[chris_bollard]

" The best camera guys are the ones that also do editing, "

er, sometimes.

I prefer to work with the ones that do camera work as a profession

[Ze Frias]

" The best camera guys are the ones that also do editing, "

er,  sometimes.

I would personally rephrase that to say:

"The best camera guys are the ones who understand editing"