stacysound Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Transcription questions… It don't often get mp3 requests. Yesterday I got such request. So… 1) I've always heard that if you want timecode to go with an mp3 file, it ought to be on a 2nd track of the mp3. That's problematic for me since I'm a Nomad guy. I've heard that SD can do this. 1a) I guess I could build a cable and route the TC out to an input. Seems like I should be able to do this via routing in the Nomad (HOWY!!). Not a solution if they don't tell me about it after the files are recorded. 2) After poking around JWSound, I found the thread about Cortney's BWF-Widget Pro. Looks like it "embeds" Timecode in the mp3 file. Good option, but I'm a Mac guy and it would require a computer on set and time. I don't always have both of those. 2a) Is that correct that it embeds TC in the mp3? 2b) Is that what the transcribers want? 2c) What will read such a file? I doubt the transcribers are using BWF-Widget Pro? What will read it on on a Mac? Also ran across an app called "Press" . Generates a .ogg file. Nothing I have will read it and show timecode to confirm it's working. http://tscripts.com/info_press Please and Thank You. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 The latest Zaxconvert can create MP3s from MARF with timecode in the ID3 tag which is very useful indeed to me, and it doesn't mind how many tracks there are to start with, but obviously needs a computer. I've done it on my Macbook. And three transcription houses I've sent files to can all use the start timecode in the ID3 tag. Though I've been meaning to experiment how Zaxconvert uses tracks eg. makes the MP3 from just the first and possibly second tracks of the MARF segment or mixes any number of tracks together. Howy will know and hopefully can enlighten us? Hope that helps? Mick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 There seems to be 3 ways to do this. One is the "2nd channel LTC" method left over from the cassette tape days, another is the "metadata/id3-tag" method used by Transcription Associates (who have a free app to convert wav files to the ogg format they use w/ TC metadata they can read) OR use an SD recorder to embed the TC in an mp3 similarly. The third method is to not bother with any sort of TC on the MP3 at, but either record them simultaneously (2 media recorder) with the master wav files or convert the files from wav after the fact so they are exactly the same length and start point, then give the transcriber a log that tells them what TC value to enter as the start time in their app so the "hits" they make in the text have the correct TC. In my low-end world the latter has been the most foolproof for free-lance part-time transcribers. For bigger time stuff (using professional transcribers) it would be good to ask what they want re metadata MP3 TC--what they can read. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTA Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 So I have found out a couple of things in regard to this, as I'm also a Nomad user. For question #1, it depends what the transcriber wants. I've had requests for TC embedded on one if the tracks of a 2-track MP3, and for this reason I still have my trusty 552 laying around which makes it easy. To be honest, I haven't had this request from transcribers too often but it does happen. Most of the time they are fine with the timecode embedded into the MP3 file, like Nomad can do, but it is always best to check with whoever is transcribing to see what they need. (I wish Nomad would have the option of embedding a TC track into an MP3 file and it was asked, but apparently it is too difficult and can only create mono MP3 files.) For question #2, Nomad might do what you need as far as embedding TC, but the transcriber would be able to tell you what they need hopefully. I've also successfully converted Zax files from Nomad to MP3's with the TC being embedded in the header. Hopefully that helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I agree that you should first find out directly from the transcriber what flavor of TC mp3 they want. The ones I've dealt with have all had different preferences and familiarity with TC. I would also suggest that with the Nomad your best option if you need TC on channel two would be to use a small external recorder like a zoom h1 or h2 and get the appropriate adapter cable made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Most of the time they are fine with the timecode embedded into the MP3 file, like Nomad can do, but it is always best to check with whoever is transcribing to see what they need. I sent them mp3's generated from the Nomad and they told me there was NOT TC embedded in the file… Are we sure this is a feature of the nomad? Is there a switch to turn it on and off that I've missed? I'm away from the machine. I'll check this afternoon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Nomad will do a tc stamp in the meta data. Most transcription houses will accept that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted October 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Thanks Jack. That's what I get for assuming the transcript house knew what they were talking about. The Zaxnet app doesn't work for me (does WAV conversions fine). What MAC app will read mp3's and show Timecode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I agree that that doesn't mean your MP3s didn't have TC (as Zax does it), it means that they couldn't read it. As we've been told here before, there is no standardized way to do TC in MP3s. Sometimes when transcribers say there is NO TC in the MP3 it means that they were still looking for audio TC in a 2nd channel, no matter what they said about metadata. This kind of issue happening on fast-turnaround jobs is why we went to the 3rd option I described above, everyone seems to be able to deal with that (or almost everyone). philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 " 2b) Is that what the transcribers want? " guess you really have to ask the transcriber in question..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 I've used tscripts "Press" several times over recent months - it's a great way to convert .wav's to MP3's with TC... but as mentioned above, it still depends on post pro's workflow - are they simply looking for TC "striped" to one of the tracks, not finding it there and saying there's no TC?... or are they ingesting and accessing the files' metadata? My experience has only been with clients incorporating the latter, thus no complaints. Ahhh, workflow parameters... so many choices...(so little communication) [not blaming anyone here for that, BTW] ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmassey Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Stacy...who is the transcription house? Yes, be sure they know to look in the mp3 for the imbedded TC....not on the left track of a two track recording!!! When do you have to do this. I could loan you my Marantz, with all the necessary cables if you have time. cleve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted October 15, 2013 Report Share Posted October 15, 2013 Stacy, any mac app, including finder's get info will show you the tc stamp that is stored in the "artist" field of the id3 metadata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted October 16, 2013 Report Share Posted October 16, 2013 Like post houses were in switching to digital files, you'll find transcript houses that will only change when their clients disappear too rapidly. However, Transcript Associates seems ready, willing, and able to keep up with technology. I've used their PRESS with success and also have sent them Nomad generated files which they said were solid. One of the many advantages of a mono file with time code embedded in the header is that they will upload in half the time (since they're half the size) of a two track file with time code on the second track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoff Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Stacy, any mac app, including finder's get info will show you the tc stamp that is stored in the "artist" field of the id3 metadata. I have wav files recorded with an SD552 and the only place I can see timecode is in Wave Agent. I've tried VLC, Finder and ID3 tags, no TC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted October 21, 2013 Report Share Posted October 21, 2013 Would think those other apps are not looking for the timecode stamp in the metadata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Mayer Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 You need to use a time code aware app. BWFWidget, ProTools, Avid, FCP and Wave Agent will all read the timecode metadata. I would also guess that BoomRecorder and MetaCorder would read the timecode if they play non-native files. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoff Posted October 22, 2013 Report Share Posted October 22, 2013 You need to use a time code aware app. BWFWidget, ProTools, Avid, FCP and Wave Agent will all read the timecode metadata. I would also guess that BoomRecorder and MetaCorder would read the timecode if they play non-native files. I'm only seeing clip time-stamp in Pro Tools 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I have wav files recorded with an SD552 and the only place I can see timecode is in Wave Agent. I've tried VLC, Finder and ID3 tags, no TC. id3 tags are a metadata format embedded in mp3 files, not wav files. The tc info in bwav files, actually a "samples since midnight" number is not recognized by finder, so an app like wave agent is needed. This is very different than the info recorded into the id3 tags of an mp3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think there is some confusion regarding timecode and mp3 files. The MP3 format was never meant to carry SMPTE timecode information and thusly has no specified way to do it. As sound mixers we have adapted MP3s to our use by adding timecode information in the following ways: 1. ID3 tag information, sometimes called embedded. It's just textual information showing the start timecode in fields originally meant to hold artist and song information. It is part of the file, but you can't hear it. Even iTunes, arguably the most popular music software, will show you this information. 2. Linear (or Longitudinal) time code (LTC). This is SMPTE timecode recorded as audio to a separate track. If you didn't already know, SMPTE timecode is an audible signal that sounds very ugly. You can record it just like any other audio to a separate track. As mp3 only has two tracks, you can have audio on one and SMPTE timecode on the other. The destination device or software used to receive and edit these mp3 files must be specifically designed to read audible timecode or else it won't do anything with it but playback noise. Popular professional devices that sound mixers use that can produce MP3 files usually can perform one of the actions above. As mentioned already, BWF-Widget, Nomad, and some Sound Devices products will put the start timecode in the MP3 ID3 tag. If you are using OS X and want to put timecode information in the ID3 tag of an MP3, other than ZaxConvert which only works with MARF files, you won't find a native app to do it. I have ran BWF-Widget in VMWare Fusion running Windows, but it only runs on Windows 9x, 2000 or XP. It will not run on Windows Vista, 7 or 8. Which option is best for transcription is up to the transcription house. Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 If you are using OS X and want to put timecode information in the ID3 tag of an MP3, other than ZaxConvert which only works with MARF files, you won't find a native app to do it. I have ran BWF-Widget in VMWare Fusion running Windows, but it only runs on Windows 9x, 2000 or XP. It will not run on Windows Vista, 7 or 8. Which option is best for transcription is up to the transcription house. Mark O. I've run BWF Widget Pro in Windows 7 under Parallels successfully, the trick seems to be to right click and 'Run as administrator'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Orusa Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 I've run BWF Widget Pro in Windows 7 under Parallels successfully, the trick seems to be to right click and 'Run as administrator'. Ah, maybe that's the trick. I tried under 7 or 8 and it gave me some message about not being able to run. Mark O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 So WaveAgent will not work? BTW, Snapper, made by AudioEase, will play most audio files as well as show almost all the metadata incl Mp3 tags. I don't know if it'll let you edit them, though. Also, it's not free, but usefulm and you can select parts of an audio file and drop it in the timeline in ProTools. Sorry for the ad. I am not affiliated, just a happy user Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 23, 2013 Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Wave Agent only plays wavs. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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