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Sample Rates 44100 vs 48000?


Joe Riggs

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Hello,

I've been given some dailies and I see the audio has been recorded at a sample rate of 44,100/32 bit.

Now I thought the minimum one should record audio is at 48,000 khz. Thought this was

industry standard?

With it being recorded at 44,100, is that bad?

How big of a quality difference are we looking at vs 48,000?

Does the fact that it was recorded at 32bit, make the 44,100 superior to a 48,000 recorded at 16 or 24 bits?

Thank you

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It sounds like someone who has primarily (or only) done music recording was brought on for the dialogue recording. There won't be any noticeable difference between 44.1/48k. Having 32-bit floating point is fine and all but your hardware is most likely converting it to 24-bit for the DA conversion to your monitors.

Sure 48k is a a more true picture of the original Sin wave and 32-bit has more dynamic range than 16 or 24. However, I would bet dollars to donuts the hardware was 24-bit A/D conversion and their software stamped it as 32-bit for its internal use.

I also have a strong feeling there are bigger fish to fry on that project when it comes to sound than the sample rate and bit depth.

Production Sound Mixing for Television, Film, and Commercials.

www.matthewfreed.com

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"With it being recorded at 44,100, is that bad?"

Not necessarily bad, but you will likely need to convert the files to 48K. 

 

"How big of a quality difference are we looking at vs 48,000?"

With a dialog track - no audible difference to most humans.

 

32-bit audio files are theoretically "better"in terms of headroom when recording/mixing/processing, but to my knowledge there are no consumer devices that are capable of playing back at 32-bit. 

 

"Does the fact that it was recorded at 32bit, make the 44,100 superior to a 48,000 recorded at 16 or 24 bits?"

As the senator would say: It depends. Was it recorded using a 32-bit A/D converter? Not likely. A good 16-bit converter is still better than a half-assed 24-bit converter.

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Hi, and welcome...

" With it being recorded at 44,100, is that bad? "

it depends...

" I thought the minimum one should record audio is at 48,000 khz." 

nope

 " Thought this was industry standard? "

for professional audio, in many circumstances, it is

" How big of a quality difference are we looking at vs 48,000? "

all other things being equal, insignificant, and probably undetectable

" it was recorded at 32bit, make the 44,100 superior to a 48,000 recorded at 16 or 24 bits? "

HUH!?"

now that is really non-standard...WHY??

the sampling rate has to do with frequency response (Nyquist) and the accuracy of the reproduction, and the bit depth is about the dynamic range and accuracy of reproduction, with 16 bit and 24 bit being the standards, even though most quality audio equipment can only do 20 bit resolution... many DAW programs process in 32 bit FP, which is a different representation of the audio data...

beyond just the math, what is superior can be a bit subjective ...

" Does the fact that it was recorded at 32bit, make the 44,100 superior to a 48,000 recorded at 16 or 24 bits?"

Not really....When it comes to capturing production sound, the other limitations of the hardware would be more significant to the quality than the bit rate alone.

Also, I'm extrapolating that this was done by folks without much movie experience, so other problems, like noisy locations, will make more differences to the "quality" than the technical spec's could.

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Thank you, guess it is not as big an issue as I thought. For future reference, what would be the ideal rate to record to, 48k/24 bit?
Yes. I once encountered 48k and 44.1k files mixed in one session. They will playback at different speeds (if your software allows this) which is very audible. So this would be something to watch out for
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Thank you, guess it is not as big an issue as I thought.

 

For future reference, what would be the ideal rate to record to, 48k/24 bit?

A lot of cameras record at 48/16 so the camera designers evidently think that 48/16 is good enough. But 48/24 is a good, basic standard for recording audio. Give them more than they expect.

 

96/24 is better and makes you a bit more "future proof" but if you stick with 48/24 not many people will have the right to complain.

 

(BTW, 44.1/16 is the standard for CDs, a standard defined in the 1970s)

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Well, we were talking about standards, and actually 48k IS a standard for video audio.  We don't use 44.1, period.  Having mixed sample rates in your time line will make your computer work harder (real time SRC to project rate which should be 48k), and if and when you export audio you will have to render anything that was not 48k to 48k, or it will not appear in the export.  Production sound files recorded at 4.1 are either a mistake or the work of someone with very little experience in video.  I used to get a lot of OMFs in post with big holes in them, caused by editors using 44.1 files without converting them.

 

philp

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" BTW, 44.1/16 is the standard for CDs, a standard defined in the 1970s "

it was a compromise, as the committee designing CD's had to deal with technological limitations of the era, and meet design goals, which could not be met with 48kHz sampling. 44.1 is typically only used for CD's.

 

a lot of material is recorded in 24 bit samples, but not necessarily at even full 16 bit quality (typically on cheap devices!)...

a lot of material is recorded at higher than 48kHz rates, but then reduced to 48kHz for delivery.

feel free...

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  • 2 months later...

If a 44.1 is brought into a 48 session without conversion the audio will be out of sync with picture. The sound will be "sped up".

Yes, As was previously stated, some NLEs and DAWs can have mixed sample rates/ bit depth clips even within the same track.

Otherwise a 44.1k file can be easily be re-sampled to 48k. Problems arise when files are different and.. undocumented.

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Funny, on my 788T when trying to set up the Mix Assist, it has a screen that says... (Use no more than 2 drives and reduce sampling rate.) NOT an exact quote....  

 

  I was at 48 as normal, and only had 1 drive armed.... then two.... Would not allow the Mix Assist to run until I went to  : 44.1K...   There were two other options, both 47.952K, one with an "n" 47.952Kn, but nothing quickly recognizable to most... So.... 44.1K it is......

 

It did as I say fire up when I went to the 44.1K

 

I was wondering about the pitfalls of 44.1K myself...

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Funny, on my 788T when trying to set up the Mix Assist, it has a screen that says... (Use no more than 2 drives and reduce sampling rate.) NOT an exact quote

You have to actually choose a two-drive setting in the menu for it to work. Simply not connecting a third drive is not enough. It should work at 48k then.
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You have to actually choose a two-drive setting in the menu for it to work. Simply not connecting a third drive is not enough. It should work at 48k then.

That was just the tip I was looking for.... I went in via the input button...then Media.....  and deselected EX or external drive from each track....   Now it will fire up...

Thank you Constantin....   I was happy to confirm I can make it work on the LEFT MIX track only....

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