Jump to content

Scratch Tracks Wrongly Used In Final Edit


Hotfoot

Recommended Posts

I did a feature length project earlier this year and got a call from the dialogue editor telling me they'd cut the whole thing using the scratch track.

I only sent the boom op feed, so most of the time only the boom was going to camera, so they had to sync it all up

This enforces my point. Syncing production sound ought to be the first step in the editorial process. Unless we make the effort to help them understand, without blindly "doing what we are told", we're not doing our jobs.

While we will usually be right, the UPM or producer will unlikely be there in the edit room with the director saying, "Our mixer told us this would happen. It's totally my fault. Sorry."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 72
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

RPS makes a good point about Production & Post Prod budgets being 2 different things. In Film and TV you'd hope everyone is on the same page despite who's budget it comes out of. In commercials the directors don't even cut their spots, the Agency does and often in NYC or Chicago and all points in between. Communication is dodgy at best between Prod & Post Prod. Personally I got tired of the no feed to camera fight and I mostly now send a quality mix to the Alexa (99% of the time) and collect the rent on the camera(s) hop(s). Never had production complain about the extra cost but that may just be my corner of commercials.

CrewC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I work on a lot of jobs where sending a high quality 2-channel feed to the camera isn't possible for one or more of many reasons (including non-cooperation by the cam dept).  The output of a small (read mid-fi) RX with a mono feed is all I'm likely to get onboard.  I put a lot of effort into the "secretarial" aspects of production sound, esp re metadata notes, file names and how all that info gets presented in  WA -derived sound report that will accompany my files to post.  If they ignore this info for whatever reason then that's on them.  They may also be using takes that the DP didn't like the lighting and framing on, that the talent didn't like their performance on, that the hair/MU/wardrobe/art aspects were compromised on too.  You do your best, provide the "treasure map" to the best of your abilities and send it all downstream.   Communication with post re your methodology is favorite, but as Crew points out on many types of small jobs that can be very hard to do.

 

philp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 6 months later...

If my recorder could send a little robot voice saying "reference audio guide only, please sync sound before editing" over scratch track every minute or so i'd probably do it.

But seriously i like the idea to write a bold note on the digi slate.

I'm sure lot's of projects i worked on ended up using my zaxnet scratch.. Hey, it sucks but it's their project.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If my recorder could send a little robot voice saying "reference audio guide only, please sync sound before editing" over scratch track every minute or so i'd probably do it. 

 

I am sure there'd be at least one post client saying "We don't want to waste time with a dialog edit. Voices on the ref pix are perfect the way we gave them to you. Just filter out that annoying robot."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am sure there'd be at least one post client saying "We don't want to waste time with a dialog edit. Voices on the ref pix are perfect the way we gave them to you. Just filter out that annoying robot."

 

It's also a backup in case something else goes terribly wrong. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Usually for Narrative or Doc shoots, I'll throw a reference shotgun mic on the camera.  With the timecode slate, they know they have to sync things in post.  Or, I tether myself  to the camera Boom on L and Lavs on R.  Wireless Hops all depend on the production manager and if they have the budget for it.

 

For reality gigs, producers always want wireless hops w/ all wires.  If they see a boom pole or shotgun mic, the producers all hiss like vampires do when they see a crucifix. 

 

Most DPs are okay with me running no audio to the camera, only timecode.  Or if DPs/ACs tell me to stay away from the camera entirely I make sure the timecode slate covers it.  I'm always sure to bring up all issues before we start to the producer, DP, and Director when it comes to how the production will be flowing.

 

I try to troubleshoot any and all problems before they come up, that we I can reference the email or say "we had this conversation before we started".

 

Otherwise, there is much else we can do.  Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Working with Alexas I cable line level to both tracks

 

With Scarlet and Epic I try to cable or radio feed

 

With Black Magic and 5D I get them to turn the camera mike

 

I provide all my files to the data wrangler and send my sound logs to the PM

 

The rest is history and out of my hands!

 

mike

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had this regular run and gun ENG-gig a few years ago. Basically sending a mono mix from a SD442 mixer to the camera via a snake cable - boom and one-two lavs mixed to mono. Always pushing the limiter because I knew NOTHING would happen to the audio in "post".

 

One weekend we got the wrong camera from the rental company which we found out on location. Made a easy gig into a very hectic gig to say the least.

 

A couple of days later I got a call from the TV company, they'd been editing all day but just couldn't get the audio to "sound okay". After some detective work on the telephone it turned out that the sound from the off-cam reporter sounded louder than the people in the picture.

 

Well, it turned out they had rented an offline tape machine to be able to transfer the material into the computer and in the process mixed the camera mic (on auto-level) and my mono mix into two mono channels with the same sound. Then they had been editing the material all day, really trying to ignore the pumping ambience of the camera mic and when they finished the three minute cut, they just couldn't accept the fact that the ambience was louder than the people on camera. * sigh*

 

I'm glad they took the time to call me, because otherwise it would have been my last gig for them, I'm sure.

 

My mistake to put the camera mic on channel one, but it was a hasty gig due to the circumstances and I overlooked it.

 

 

Anyway, right now I'm planning to go for wireless camera hop because I've just bought a SD664. To begin with it will probably be one G3 and one SK50 transmitter, but I'm looking into better sounding alternatives. Because I'm only doing documentaries and want the camera sound to be a good sounding backup - boom on channel one and a mix of lavs on channel two.

 

The Zaxcom system looks really interesting. so does Lectro and the digital Sony systems. Ah, well, I'll stick with the G3/SK50 combo for now and compare it to the recorded sound files in the SD664.

 

 

Cheers

Fred

Link to comment
Share on other sites

ah, OK. And you know camera operators who are happy with such a bulky setup?

I'm just curious...

 

Yes, we're good friends. He and I develop new documentaries together. We're used to being hooked up via a snake cable for the last two and a half years. Going wireless will be a bliss (even with the extra weight on the camera). He's over fifty but still a surfer dude, he can take the extra weight! :-D

 

I've worked with a lot of different camera men (and women) and I think they will take the extra weight of two receivers ANY DAY, if the alternative is being hooked up with a (talkative) sound dude via cable. In my opinion, they are more reluctant being told to wear headphones, don't you think? ;-)

 

In the long run I want to use a Zaxcom, Lectro, Wisycom or Sony stereo receiver, just for convenience and as a backup. But until then I will try this setup...or go back to cable.

 

Just bought a Timecode Buddy system - wifi master and mini trx - and it's going to be interesting trying it out as Rec Run (using only one Sony F55 camera and a SD664 mixer). If it works I will be very happy and if it don't I will use it as RF synced 24h "free run".

 

 

Cheers

Fred

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think an automated -20dB 1K beep every 5 secs would do the trick

 

 

 

"There's something wrong with your production tracks. When I try to mix them in the editor, I keep getting those beeps that say they need to be rendered. Come over here and fix them."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think an automated -20dB 1K beep every 5 secs would do the trick ;)

here we go again....

same old same old...

nothing has changed, and I still believe that we are paid to deliver the best possible sound to the client; if the client accepts our feed and is in charge of the recorder (and we are not, as is the case with recording to camcorders) it remains our job to provide the best possible feed, although we are clearly not responsible for the quality of the recording of that feed.

as an example, personally, I have no issue with doing single system to Arri's camcorders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always try to get a clear answer as to whether they want a scratch track to be used simply for dailies/sync purposes or if they want a broadcast-ready mix to camera

 

I'm a younger guy generally doing smaller jobs so I don't really encounter the latter too often but with the former, I usually send my mix a little hot via my G3s so that it doesn't end up in the final product. Haven't had any issues with clients or post being upset about this & haven't had the scratch track used in the final edit

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also somewhat related: recently did a film where the client said no scratch or mix to the camera & somehow the editors ended up using the sound from the on-board camera mics in the edit. When the sound designer (a friend of mine) got the film, he sent me a few angry texts before we realized that the editors forgot to give him my sound files. Once he got my files from the editors, I got plenty of happy texts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...