rstl99 Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Hi all, One of my Nagra IV-Ss is for sale on ebay now, and assuming I find a buyer for it, I'd like to use the $2000-2500 I hope to get for it to finance the acquisition of a good 2 track portable digital recorder, to modernize my setup a bit and upgrade on the Zoom H4n I've been toying with in my home studio for a while. I'm just an amateur recordist who likes quality recordings (music, voice, sounds) but on a bit of a budget. I'm looking at these options: 1. The obvious choice would be a SD 702. 2. The forthcoming Sony PCM D100 (more portable than SD 702, cheaper, but more pro-sumer than the pro SD unit as far as performance?) 3. This is my Nagra bias showing, but there is a Nagra V on ebay that used to belong to a sound man named Pawel that some of you probably know, for $2500. Would that be a step back in comparison to a new 702? 4. Finally, and this would not be as portable (though easily transportable to gigs etc.) as the other solutions above, but buying a SD UsbPre2 and plugging that into my new Macbook, and using the Mac as bit-bucket and sound editor. Any thoughts much appreciated. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 rstl: " Any thoughts much appreciated. " this is a frequent question here, and the answers are numerous, and quickly become subjective, as well... you will have to do your own research, and make your own, personal choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 The popular consensus was the Sony PCM D50 had the best sounding internal mics, so the Sony PCM D100 is likely the best candidate for a recorder with internal mics. I don't believe it has XLR input though. The SD 207/722 would be my choice for a 'two channel' recorder. The SD USB 2 would be good, for not that portable for 'field' work with a Macbook. An SD MixPre-D S/PDIF> Tascam DR100 is another relatively low cost portable option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 rstl: " Any thoughts much appreciated. " this is a frequent question here, and the answers are numerous, and quickly become subjective, as well... you will have to do your own research, and make your own, personal choice. I know, I know, and thought twice about posting such a frequent question, sorry if it wastes bandwidth. I'll re-read previous posts to learn (again) from similar inquiries, but wanted to thank Rick for his useful insights, which help make my "own, personal choice". Indeed, I'm sort of mixing apples and oranges by looking at SD 702 vs Sony PCM D100 (built-in vs external mics and XLR). Anyway, scratch the idea of buying an older Nagra V, I think it's time for me to get onto some brand new gear, join the crowd so to speak. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 ... Used 552, otherwise: MixPre-D (new) +Sony D50 as a recording package (preamps plus recorder) ...OR/AND... USB interface for the computer (MixPre-D alone) and stereo handheld recorder for ambiances or live sound (D50 alone) . There's also the Nagra handheld recorder if you wish and fits the budget (I don't have its price)... Since you seem to have a Nagra'crush... Be prepared for this discussion to go deeper into sample rates, portability, digital vs analog, etc... Which will bring it back to what Sen' says in the end... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 there is a Nagra V on ebay that used to belong to a sound man named Pawel that some of you probably know, for $2500. I do know Pawel; he is a well-respected mixer with good credits including several pictures for Wes Anderson. The Nagra V was an excellent recorder that was, sadly, behind the times. It was a two-track recorder at the time multi-track recorders were becoming available from respected sources like Aaton, Sound Devices and Zaxcom. Also the Nagra was hindered in its acceptance by its use, in initial release, of an Orb drive. This proved to be very unreliable and was eventually replaced with a removable hard drive. But the transition to a better drive was too little, too late. If a buyer were to contact the seller (Pawel) and confirm details of the drives supplied, the Nagra might be a good choice for someone seeking a two-track recorder. You would certainly be assured of a recorder with very high construction quality and excellent preamps. At the asking price of almost $2500, there are other choices but it's worth consideration. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 I think you need to narrow down your requirements/wishes first. You are looking for a field recorder, but you'll consider a computer with an interface, too. That's a very long list of options you're opening up here. Even with regards to the field recorder you've only said better than your Zoom, but cheaper than 2500,-. Still a long list of many very different devices. Once you've narrowed it down a bit, perhaps then someone can help you with the choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Boomboom: I like the flexibility that the USBPre(or USBPre2) and a D50 (or D100?) would provide, in combination (or not) with the Macbook. I should point out that I have not previously used a computer-based DAW before, having always used standalone recorders, whether analog or digital, so maybe I shouldn't hinge my decision on a Mac-compatible solution when I may not even like working in that kind of DAW workflow... David: Much thanks for the opinion on the Nagra V, and that it may not be completely ridiculous to be considering this (as a replacement for the IV-S in some ways). I'll try to contact Pawel and discuss. This one comes with the internal hard drive, and two removable ones, and the double-needle modulometer which I understand came with the later release that you alluded to. Constantin: indeed my needs are a little broad and unfocused. I suppose I find appealing BoomBoom's suggestion of acquiring two devices (USBPre and a portable handheld of better quality than the Zoom), and having some flexibility, versus acquiring just a very good standalone field recorder. A standalone field recorder like the SD 702 (or maybe that Nagra V, to keep me in that family) would likely be a more familiar solution for me, simpler to use as well. Although there are less pricey solutions between a 702 and a Zoom, I don't necessarily want to look at all the various brands of recorders out there, and focus on just a couple of manufacturers (SD being one). The quality and resale value (just in case) of SD means a lot to me. Anyway, all your thoughts are very helpful in helping me hone in on my needs and preferences. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpbat Posted January 13, 2014 Report Share Posted January 13, 2014 Presently, it seems that the big bargain is a used 552. The recording part itself is a bit awkward to use, but you get accustomed to it, and the mixer part is serious stuff. At the price I could sell mine, I'm thinking I'll keep it. Always useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Collins Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Take a look at boom recorder software, a laptop Mac and a MOTU interface. Cost efficient choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Get the SD-702. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Presently, it seems that the big bargain is a used 552. The recording part itself is a bit awkward to use, but you get accustomed to it, and the mixer part is serious stuff. At the price I could sell mine, I'm thinking I'll keep it. Always useful. Thanks, yes, I'm considering that solution (552). SD have an interesting article comparing the pros and cons of 702 vs 552 which I find informative and useful: http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/general/552-or-7-series/ Take a look at boom recorder software, a laptop Mac and a MOTU interface. Cost efficient choice. Will do, thanks Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I think the elephant in the room is that Nagra has tecentlt released two handheld two channel recorders. Why not look into those?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 *recently-- can't seem to edit from mobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 with used 744T recorders now going for under $3K on trewaudio's consignment page, this may also be a wild card option. It really is a suberb machine. maybe more than you need with the timecode and all, but may be worth a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 The 744T is the workhorse of the industry---a great machine J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thanks, will definitely consider a used 744T, based on your recommendations (and current used prices for them...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Nagra has also released a new 2ch recorder, the Nagra VII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thanks, will definitely consider a used 744T, based on your recommendations (and current used prices for them...) I have one for sale. Never failed. Make me an offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Robert has lowered the price of his 744T to $2200 (even including some extras), you should snap it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundmanjohn Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I gave a very brief answer to this on Gearslutz, but the s/n ratio on this board is usually a lot better, so I'll add some details of my experiences, which may or may not help. For many years I did all my Ambisonic location recordings using a Mac and a Metric Halo 2882 interface (the first that could be bus-powered) and the results were superb. But it meant that in the more remote locations, I was carrying the Mac, the 2882, spare batteries, Firewire cables, external hard-drives, Soundfield mic & control unit, cables, a boom-pole and/or a lightweight stand. Although I could fit it all into one large back-pack, carrying it and setting it up at each location was a real pain and on more than one occasion, a Firewire cable problem caused me to lose good sounds and the time spent setting up to capture some fleeting sound was also always a problem. When I moved up to the ULN-8, I needed a second power source as the ULN-8 can't be bus-powered, so that meant an even bigger and heavier load. Add to that the difficulty of reading the screen of a laptop in bright sunlight, even with one of the hoods that are avaialble, and the fact that the current Mac laptops don't have easily replaceable batteries, it soon became apparent that I was going to have to change my methodology. When my back started to complain and my excess baggage bills exceeded my flight ticket costs, I finally saw the light and saved up for a used Sound Devices 788T, which I love. I've since added a 702 and a 744T to the stable (all of these bought used from people advertising on this board) and couldn't be happier. The 702 is the stereo work-horse and is small and light enough to put in a backpack with a couple of spare batteries and will run happily all day. If you want the added security of dual recording media, then the 722 is the machine to go for. The 744 is my go-to machine for when I'm just using the Soundfield and the 788 comes out for the more complex jobs. Almost everything now fits in one medium-sized bag, including the latest Soundfield in its Rycote and setting up is quick and easy, with presets for the various mic set-ups easily accessible. I still use the Metric Halo ULN-8s, as they sounds amazing; one in the studio and the other almost exclusively for location music recording where I have a mains power feed and plenty of time, but I wouldn't go back to an interface and a laptop for my effects recording: it's just too much hassle. I think you'd be more than happy with a used 744T, which really is an incredibly versatile machine in a very small package. Cheers, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Thanks, will definitely consider a used 744T, based on your recommendations (and current used prices for them...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Nagra has also released a new 2ch recorder, the Nagra VII. I think the elephant in the room is that Nagra has tecentlt released two handheld two channel recorders. Why not look into those?? Although I haven't looked at those up close, I've read about them since they came out (you mean the Lino and the like, right?). Made in China does not resonate well with me for one thing (though my Macbook is, but in that case I have no choice), and the specs didn't strike me as much different from the myriad of handhelds out there. Based on my reading, I'd probably buy a Sony D50 (or the upcoming D100) if I wanted a handheld. Nagra has also released a new 2ch recorder, the Nagra VII. Thanks but probably a little too pricey for my pocketbook I fear. I'm not a pro, don't generate income from equipment, so have to be reasonable in my spending on this. Good, solid value and quality of construction and sound is paramount for me. Getting a good used specimen is always a good thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rstl99 Posted January 14, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 For many years I did all my Ambisonic location recordings using a Mac and a Metric Halo 2882 interface (the first that could be bus-powered) and the results were superb.(...) I wouldn't go back to an interface and a laptop for my effects recording: it's just too much hassle. I think you'd be more than happy with a used 744T, which really is an incredibly versatile machine in a very small package. Thank you John for sharing your experiences and rationale for shifting your equipment choices over the years. I've found this very useful and you've made me realize that I am really looking for two different things: 1. a very good standalone recorder (2 track, and maybe 4 if I end up going with a 744) for remote recording (ambient sounds, music events, interviews) 2. occasionally, a means to import good live or recorded sound into my Mac, for fooling around with multi-track recording and editing at home. Part of that rationale is to experiment with multi-track layering and editing again, and use the Mac for something else than internet, email, and the odd document writing. Everything involves compromises, technology abounds and is getting better and cheaper every year. I think that in the short term I'll just focus on the standalone recorder and deal with the Mac side down the road. Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 FWIW, If the OP is not familiar with the 744's architecture, Input channels 3-4 are line level only, so two external mic preamps would be necessary for four microphones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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