Best inside mic for least echo.

[Mirror]

Amen to your post,  

I was very frustrated since the blue screened counterpart was outside...  it made no sense to have any reflection.  

 

I warned them about the location but they said it looks great,  what's the problem?,  

 

I was able to get some really nice wild tracks with a booth box I rigged up myself,  so long as their editor has some chops in protools it shouldn't be a problem. 

 

And yes,  bringing a U87 to set will never happen again,  it's a vintage original, and i've already had moisture problems with it in the past here in hawaii.

 

I've had the 50 and 641 suggested to me a couple times now.   Seems like the schoeps system is a great investment with it's interchangeable capsulses

 

 

...with you being in Hawaii, know that the Schoeps is not humid friendly.

[mikewest]

Well said Marc.

 

Embrace or minimise.

 

We rarely choose the stage or warehouse we are required to work in.

 

For me it's either a close Sanken CS-1 or a Sonotrim/Lectro approach

 

mike

[Prahlad Strickland]

Well said Marc.

 

Embrace or minimise.

 

We rarely choose the stage or warehouse we are required to work in.

 

For me it's either a close Sanken CS-1 or a Sonotrim/Lectro approach

 

mike

Great, thanks for the CS-1 suggestion, will definately get one in for a try, I really like the sanken mic's,  well there studio mic's anyways,  I have a CU-41 and it's a hidden gem for voice over and instrument micing.

I wish their lavalier had a more open and friendly sound, always found the cos-11 a bit brash in the upper mids compared to the DPA's,  

And yes, I need to accept that choosing a location is out of the question. I'm stubborn being an ozzy, I need to do my best under any location.

[studiomprd]

laddie: "more toys right now,  ones with less echo,"

the echo, er reverb are in the room, not created in the mic's.

 

rorrim: " ...with you being in Hawaii, know that the Schoeps is not humid friendly. "

Sheppy's work very well in Hawai'i...

[deep owl]

Shooting at EDGE studios in LA all week. Have shot here many times and can't understand why anyone would want to shoot here. Cavernous is a great description. Much like smashbox or milk. Anyway lavs almost always play better here but it's nice to get the boom in to help them sound a little more natural. Luckily the editor was in Mark Waldrep's recording class with me back in college so he's well educated on phase issues that come with multiple mics.

[RPSharman]

I'm in a terrible echoey environment today, as I was the other day. The echo worked story-wise before (parking garage) but a bit less acceptable today.

The 50 was great at very close range (within 6") in both places. Ok to about 12"-18" in the garage, since it played nicely in wider shots.

Today, the echo is distracting over 6" and too many wider shots to be switching to boom for close ups (although they're both there in the ISOs if they want). We also have 4 loud overlappers, which makes the echo hard and tight booming harder. Lavs it is.

[Marc Wielage]

Sheppy's work very well in Hawai'i...

 

"Sheppy's"? Would those work with "Senny" wireless transmitters?

 

 

Today, the echo is distracting over 6" and too many wider shots to be switching to boom for close ups (although they're both there in the ISOs if they want). We also have 4 loud overlappers, which makes the echo hard and tight booming harder. Lavs it is.

 

I hate when that happens. 

[John Blankenship]

"Sheppy's"? Would those work with "Senny" wireless transmitters?

...

 

...especially, if you used them with a Panny camera?

[James Louis]

If you're going to mitigate this with a mic, I'd go with vin's suggestion the SuperCMIT, or at least this gives you more reason to have one in the first place. Can be placed more effectively than most to downplay standing waves. But clearly, the majority of advice here offers even more attainable solutions for which you will get plenty mileage.

[osborne456]

What I've used in bathrooms might work for you-

Neumann KM185, Senn MKH50, Neumann tlm102

[Geoff Maxwell]

I was in a similar situation on a stage with a cyclorama that had a wicked slap in a few spots. Fortunately I had the luxury of doing a test before the shoot. Comparing:

 

Schoeps MK4

Schoeps MK41

Sanken CS3

Sennheiser 416

Schoeps SUPER CMIT (DSP plus the standard CMIT output)

Sennheiser MKH 50

 

I then took the results to an audio post house. They used a program called Izotope? supposedly it can fix almost anything. They tried their best to eliminate the echo but the SUPER CMIT removed echo better than any solution they had in-house or were aware of...at any price.

 

Note: The mics tested were the mics I had on-hand. There may be other mics which would have performed better.

[Mirror]

I was in a similar situation on a stage with a cyclorama that had a wicked slap in a few spots. Fortunately I had the luxury of doing a test before the shoot. Comparing:

 

Schoeps MK4

Schoeps MK41

Sanken CS3

Sennheiser 416

Schoeps SUPER CMIT (DSP plus the standard CMIT output)

 

I then took the results to an audio post house. They used a program called Izotope? supposedly it can fix almost anything. They tried their best to eliminate the echo but the SUPER CMIT removed echo better than any solution they had in-house or were aware of...at any price.

 

Note: The mics tested were the mics I had on-hand. There may be other mics which would have performed better.

 

Interesting info.

[pindrop]

I was in a similar situation on a stage with a cyclorama that had a wicked slap in a few spots. Fortunately I had the luxury of doing a test before the shoot. Comparing:

 

Schoeps MK4

Schoeps MK41

Sanken CS3

Sennheiser 416

Schoeps SUPER CMIT (DSP plus the standard CMIT output)

Sennheiser MKH 50

 

I then took the results to an audio post house. They used a program called Izotope? supposedly it can fix almost anything. They tried their best to eliminate the echo but the SUPER CMIT removed echo better than any solution they had in-house or were aware of...at any price.

 

Note: The mics tested were the mics I had on-hand. There may be other mics which would have performed better.

Yep, that's what I've been saying (with DSP), thanks for posting your proper comparison conclusions.

[Abe Dolinger]

Yeah, Izotope RX3 Advanced is said to have a reverb reduction algorithm. I would love to hear what it can do, and whether you could improve its results by providing an impulse of the room or something.

[jrd456]

Most important for echo absorbtion is to put a lot of rugs on the floor.that is probably where the mic. is pointing.

 

                                                                         J.D.

[Wandering Ear]

...especially, if you used them with a Panny camera?

So senny mike is using his scheppy mic on a panny cam?

[studiomprd]

marc: " Would those work with "Senny" "

or Sanny, but not Sony...

[SDO]

There is plugins ( Unveil and De-Verb) that can remove some of the reverb from recordings. Could be one (semi) solution , if nothing else work. But no magic here. Here's a link that show some examples of it.
http://designingsound.org/2013/03/review-of-zynaptiqs-reverb-reduction-processor-unveil/
 

[Prahlad Strickland]

I was in a similar situation on a stage with a cyclorama that had a wicked slap in a few spots. Fortunately I had the luxury of doing a test before the shoot. Comparing:

 

Schoeps MK4

Schoeps MK41

Sanken CS3

Sennheiser 416

Schoeps SUPER CMIT (DSP plus the standard CMIT output)

Sennheiser MKH 50

 

I then took the results to an audio post house. They used a program called Izotope? supposedly it can fix almost anything. They tried their best to eliminate the echo but the SUPER CMIT removed echo better than any solution they had in-house or were aware of...at any price.

 

Note: The mics tested were the mics I had on-hand. There may be other mics which would have performed better.

How does the super CMIT work from 12 - 16",  for normal outside work?,  

 

I guess it could be a good buy to have another good sounding Shotty and a good solution for indoor work.   rather then buying a schoeps without DSP and something like the senn MKH50

[Geoff Maxwell]

How does the super CMIT work from 12 - 16",  for normal outside work?,  

 

I guess it could be a good buy to have another good sounding Shotty and a good solution for indoor work.   rather then buying a schoeps without DSP and something like the senn MKH50

Hmmm... well whether inside or out The SuperCMIT is quirky. It can blow your mind either way..incredibly good or incredibly bad. I wish I could be specific as to the conditions of each occurrence but it's random. Which is why we have the unprocessed signal on the other channel. I'm no engineer but I suppose there is some sort of "digital guesswork" going on and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't.

 

Aside from the amazing echo solution I've already discussed, there isn't anything the SuperCMIT CAN do that Post CAN'T in terms of removing ambient noise. But it's always nice to give them the best tracks we can...again with the safety net of the standard CMIT channel as a backup.

 

Having said all that, I love the mic for the many occasions it excels. However unfortunately there is no "magic bullet" in any of our tool boxes.

[Sebben]

Try unveil, I think it is pretty sweet.

http://www.zynaptiq.com/unveil/

[Armin Siegwarth]

Hmmm... well whether inside or out The SuperCMIT is quirky. It can blow your mind either way..incredibly good or incredibly bad. I wish I could be specific as to the conditions of each occurrence but it's random. Which is why we have the unprocessed signal on the other channel. I'm no engineer but I suppose there is some sort of "digital guesswork" going on and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't.

Aside from the amazing echo solution I've already discussed, there isn't anything the SuperCMIT CAN do that Post CAN'T in terms of removing ambient noise. But it's always nice to give them the best tracks we can...again with the safety net of the standard CMIT channel as a backup.

Having said all that, I love the mic for the many occasions it excels. However unfortunately there is no "magic bullet" in any of our tool boxes.

Thanx for sharing your test and your thoughts on superCmit. Explains to me why i found Samples on the Internet which put me away from that Big Investment.

Did you have a clear 2nd Place with your test?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[pindrop]

Hmmm... well whether inside or out The SuperCMIT is quirky. It can blow your mind either way..incredibly good or incredibly bad. I wish I could be specific as to the conditions of each occurrence but it's random. Which is why we have the unprocessed signal on the other channel. I'm no engineer but I suppose there is some sort of "digital guesswork" going on and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they don't.

 

Aside from the amazing echo solution I've already discussed, there isn't anything the SuperCMIT CAN do that Post CAN'T in terms of removing ambient noise. But it's always nice to give them the best tracks we can...again with the safety net of the standard CMIT channel as a backup.

 

Having said all that, I love the mic for the many occasions it excels. However unfortunately there is no "magic bullet" in any of our tool boxes.

 

Also don't forget there is not only processed and unprocessed output simultaneously, there are also two levels of DSP (soft and hard as it were), though this cannot be chosen remotely you have to press a button on the mic. body.

There is I believe in the AES42 spec. the means for remote control but not available as yet in the Schoeps.

Also as there's quite a bit going on electronically in the mic body it can get quite warm and is to that extent humidity proof. I have never had a humidity problem with it, but I did have a problem with it getting too hot to touch in a full rycote in the desert, although it never stopped working, and I just took the end cap off the Rycote to allow a little more airflow and that seemed to work.

[George Flores]

Most important for echo absorbtion is to put a lot of rugs on the floor.that is probably where the mic. is pointing.

 

                                                                         J.D.

You hit the nail right on the head J.D..  The quickest, cheapest and most effective way to avoid or control bounce (and get at least a fighting chance to control reverb and echo) is carpet, carpet, carpet.  With green screen it is almost paramount that sound proofing is done, because green/blue screen often means limited sets, props, actors, sound absorbing properties.  Carpet runners are something you can bring with you and sometimes justifies your rate and additional personnel.  They can be purchased by production or ordered by locations if the budget allows.  Mic model choices can help only so much; controlling your shooting environment is just as important.

[pindrop]

You hit the nail right on the head J.D..  The quickest, cheapest and most effective way to avoid or control bounce (and get at least a fighting chance to control reverb and echo) is carpet, carpet, carpet.  With green screen it is almost paramount that sound proofing is done, because green/blue screen often means limited sets, props, actors, sound absorbing properties.  Carpet runners are something you can bring with you and sometimes justifies your rate and additional personnel.  They can be purchased by production or ordered by locations if the budget allows.  Mic model choices can help only so much; controlling your shooting environment is just as important.

Unless as already said it's a Super CMIT in which case the mic can strip out more reverb than you might want. For example filming in a medieval stone room about a 10 meter stone cube, stone floor, walls, and ceiling, ie. a lot of reverb, I AB'd a DPA lav close mic'd and a Super CMIT at about half a meter and the super CMIT won hands down to the extent that it took out too much reverb and did not sound how it looked.