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Zaxcom product launch

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Not trying to muddy the waters (and I know I'm showing my ignorance) but what other wireless systems provide AES out to connect digitally to the recorder/mixer? Do the popular Lectrosonics Digital Hybrid units have AES out?.

I don't know, either. Lectro no, but Sennheiser 9000 maybe, but they are not made for us. And before you say it: it's great that Zaxcom has all these features. But there are features that I had been excited about, before I found out that yes, it's there, but it's kind of limited.

But I had a similar feeling with the Lectrsonics system when I found out that digital hybrid actually doesn't have a digital output. Now I have both and they are great.

Sure, I could go analogue into my recorder, but then why did Zaxcom even include it? They were right to include it, and I'm happy to be able to use it.

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Sure, I could go analogue into my recorder, but then why did Zaxcom even include it? They were right to include it, and I'm happy to be able to use it.

I think Zaxcom included AES output knowing that it could connect to the Zaxcom recorder (Deva). At the time, I think there were few, if any, mixer/recorders that could take AES in. I fully understand that this clocking issue and sample rate (in the absence of sample rate conversion) is a drag, but it is what it is (and I don't think Zaxcom can change this).

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Lectro's D4 system has the option of digital outs and I have used them when in connection with the broadcast Sony cameras that have digital ins. I also use my QRX going to the digital ins on these cameras. Both work great and I haven't had a problem.

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I purchased three QRX100 new ~6 months ago. At that time, the official QRX page on the Zaxcom site listed the AES output at 32k-192k. I bought them planning to use them with my o1v and SRC expansion card. After much frustration, and thanks to the involvement of Ryan Coomer (Trew Hollywood), Glen Trew, Glenn Sanders and the folks at Yamaha, it was discovered that the 32k AES output from the QRX was incompatible with the SRC card from Yamaha. The Yamaha card will not recognize anything below 44.1k and (as we now know) the QRX will only deliver 32k.

 

Regardless of that, the Zaxcom product line suits me best. Although I was disappointed with the lack of 48k, I do not think I would have chosen a different wireless system if I had know beforehand.

 

I will happily seek to upgrade whichever devices are compatible with the new software.

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-from Tom Visser (always a good read): "The voices would be recorded at 48KHz.  The 32KHz processing bottleneck would be equivalent to applying a low pass filter at 16KHz.  They wouldn't have a problem with that and if they did, they shouldn't." (my emphasis). 

 

Thank you Tom for putting this issue in perspective. I think the original concern voiced by Pascal is important, certainly as it seems to have been boiled down now to a reporting (spec) issue rather than any sort of real technical concern), but it served to de-rail this thread big time. I thought about starting another topic: "Device specifications and the Real World" but decided against it.

Jeff, later this week I'll make some comparison files for that thread if you make it. I recorded some operatic music today in the city (with my Nomad) and I can re-record it though some stereo wireless transmission. I think it would be a nice test case and could help add some clarity to the conversation. I have a bunch of other technical questions I would love to raise in that thread. The issues with 32k are not as simple as some people are making them out to be. I too think this thread should stay focused on questions regarding the new developments in the technology. 

 

Do any of the rental houses have these puppies yet? Also, how close to the talent do you have to be in order to use the zaxnet features? 

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So, if the QRX receivers work on the SONY, the cameras must have sample conversion on the inputs, right?

Yeah, and I'd love to know what is the lesser of those two evils. The analog components on the newer line of Sony cameras has been the same since the EX3, and I think they sound lousy. Cheap A/D conversion can really suck the life out of things, and I've heard it in here first hand, especially with those cameras. If it does have a realtime SRC on the input, I'd be curious how good it is. As we all know, when they design the audio circuity of these cameras their main concern is power consumption/size/cost. I'm not sure performance is one of the considerations. 

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or you could use the analogue ins.

 

for me, i only started using the digital inputs on my 788 once they enabled a limiter for those inputs. 

the notion of being digital from after the mic preamp, and staying that way is all very nice, but i dont think it offers enough of an advantage for all of this hoo ha. and i may have missed it, but it is not possible that once the 2 incoming rf signals are decoded and combined into the one AES output, that is the point that the digital signal becomes 32KHz and is 48KHz until then.

 

also, using the digital ins increases the latency - the sample rate converter adds about 1ms.

and i only say that so that people who have been quiet about the sample rate controversy might have opportunity to get upset about this instead.

That a question i'd like Zax people here to tell us : If you use Analogs out, is the signal going thru the 32Khz pipe or not?

I 'm preparing a  doco with lot of music involved and i'm right now considering wich Radios to choose..

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That a question i'd like Zax people here to tell us : If you use Analogs out, is the signal going thru the 32Khz pipe or not?

I 'm preparing a  doco with lot of music involved and i'm right now considering wich Radios to choose..

 

Are you really wanting to buy based on the theory of how the respective units are designed? 

 

Ask your dealer for a loaner of each brand you're considering and make a comparison.  If it's the best sound quality that you're after, only actual use tests will give you the answer you really need.  Of course, be sure to use equivalent mics on each and conduct the tests as objectively as you can under real world conditions.

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Are you really wanting to buy based on the theory of how the respective units are designed?

.

For a part, absolutly, Yes i do! Real wolrd test are as or more important you re right..but isn't knowing the entire path of our signals from the talents mouth to the edit bench part of our job?

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk

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That a question i'd like Zax people here to tell us : If you use Analogs out, is the signal going thru the 32Khz pipe or not?

I 'm preparing a  doco with lot of music involved and i'm right now considering wich Radios to choose..

 

All of the signals go threw the "pipe". However if the question is am I better off with one thing or another. Your sound quality will be vastly better with music and other complex sound with Zaxcom. FM companded wireless with an analog or digital compander will not reproduce sound the way our digital system can. Our multi tone test on our web site shows this in detail. You will do far more harm to the sound by putting it threw analog FM companded wireless than you will ever do with the Zaxcom system.

 

Do a comparison test for your self detail is always maintained in our digital system.

 

Glenn

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Yes, I absolutely agree on the sound quality. I had to use a wireless boom the other day and I put on my 742. the scene was very quiet, the actors were whispering. It was a night shoot and even the crew was very quiet. This for me is where the Zaxcom TRXs really shine. They were absolutely quiet. I don't care about NeverClip so much, but the really quiet stuff is where they can play their biggest trump card. The recording was as quiet as possible, no extra radio hiss, no compander pumping, nothing. Every word was clear and understandable. The 16k cut-off might even be helpful by getting rid of some high freq hiss.

Ironically, this was with the analogue outs not of the QRX, but an older RX900...

AFAIK the TX transmits 32kHz, right, Glenn? So the QRX really has no chance...

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Glenn , thanks for the quick and clear answer. I don't doubt the sound quality of zax products since I m a quite happy nomad user, I just wanted to be aware of the signal flow I might use.

Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk

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I am reading exactly the same approach here:

 

- Doesn't matter the 32kHz. It's all fine.

 

Why NeverClip exist then? We are happy with limiters. It's all fine.

 

I HOPE you not lost it again from what I have said now.

 

:)

 

Best

V

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Another curiosity inspired spec question. Is the Zaxcom wireless "stream" a lossless or perceptually encoded lossy format? I'm guessing full PCM would be a no go bandwidth wise.

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"For a part, absolutely, Yes i do! Real world test are as or more important you re right..but isn't knowing the entire path of our signals from the talents mouth to the edit bench part of our job?"

 

Yes, it is important to understand the whole chain but much of this discussion is at cross purposes to that goal. For example, the whole 32khz thing (and I agree it is not as simple as some might pose) is all confused by many. There have been answers regarding use of analog outs instead of AES (to deal with the "problem" of other devices not being able to clock under 44.1) but then confusion about the frequency response jumps in and people ask about that (sometimes with a total lack of even basic understanding of sample rates).

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Any update on when we'll be able to download the new modulation update? I'm ready to test!

Should be this week.

Could be as early as today - Howy has to do a few minor tweaks when gets back from his 'maternity leave".

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Howy is such a dedicated person that the team at Zaxcom, who are themselves extremely anxious to get the new technology into the hands of their users, cheered when he opted to take some maternity time off.

Howy rocks!

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