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Aaton Cantar X3 Launch


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  • 5 months later...

Wow.1900,-- to add more faders to an allready most expensive machine...Wow.What are they thinking in Grenoble?Aaton digital is the company that is supposed to save the day(for the rest of the company:camera dept),but with these prices I guess the 'lucky few' are willing to pay these prices,and the rest will leave it where it is..in Grenoble.Pity.A bit 'The Sonosax story'... 

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Wow.1900,-- to add more faders to an allready most expensive machine...Wow.What are they thinking in Grenoble?Aaton digital is the company that is supposed to save the day(for the rest of the company:camera dept),but with these prices I guess the 'lucky few' are willing to pay these prices,and the rest will leave it where it is..in Grenoble.Pity.A bit 'The Sonosax story'... 

For some however the Euro is sinking against the Dollar and the Pound and if it carries on at the same rate this will be a bonanza for some outside the Euro by June.......

post-2842-0-81791100-1424810560_thumb.jp

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Some X3 news.....

http://www.aaton.com/node/193

 

Cantarem 2

is a new 12 tracks mixer with assignable faders.

Perfect companion of the Cantar-X3, it connects with USB and uses the same sliders than ones found on the Cantar-X3 embedded mixer.

Availability June 2015

price : 1900,- euros

 

from the same newsletter:   the first 100 cantars are pre-sold.  not sure when the second batch are due to arrive. 

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How do people using the catarEm deal with communication routing?

On the X2, I have...

slate mic (shift + RED) routed via the DIGI 8 (mono mix) to AES input on Zaxcom IFB200 for IFB (and camera scratch if needed)

slate mic (single BLACK) routed to analog FOLDBACK L to my PL1 transmitter (boom)

slate mic (double BLACK) routed to analog FOLDBACK R to my PL2 transmitter (utility or boom 2)

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Wow.1900,-- to add more faders to an allready most expensive machine...Wow.What are they thinking in Grenoble?Aaton digital is the company that is supposed to save the day(for the rest of the company:camera dept),but with these prices I guess the 'lucky few' are willing to pay these prices,and the rest will leave it where it is..in Grenoble.Pity.A bit 'The Sonosax story'... 

the original cantarem is compatible, and can be seen regularly on consignment pages.

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Wandering if the onboard faders are better then on the x2, enough that there is no real need for a Canterem.

 

There appears to be a widely shared misunderstanding of the purpose of those linear faders on the Cantar.

 

They don't serve to adjust the level of each channel - at least, not in the commonly understood way. They do adjust level, of course, but only the contribution of each channel to the mix track(s).

 

Level to the individual tracks is controlled only by the rotary knobs - nickel-silver (or similar) on the original Cantar X1/X2 and purple on the new X3. It's also possible to make a mix from the individual tracks that can be recorded on another track and turned in as the "mix track." The magnetic faders on the left surface of the Cantar are used to control how strong each of the ISO channels will be in the mix.

 

The Cantarem add-on panel provides additional functionality. It doesn't replace the magnetic faders, rather it replaces the rotary channel knobs. The potentiometers on the Cantarem are Penny+Giles linear faders and offer the same feel and control one would find on a Cooper or Sonosax mixer. Each slide fader can be configured to replace any of the rotary knobs or also, if one likes. any output channel. Using a Cantarem, the mixing experience would be very like the experience of working with a Cooper or Sonosax or Audio Developments. And the magnetic faders fitted to the Cantar might still be used to adjust how those various signals would be factored into the mix track(s).

 

David

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Thanks David, so to recap,

The magnetic fader on the top left of the Cantar are acting like fader levels ( post trim ) sends to the mix track where the rotary controls ( top right ) are trims to the individual input/tracks.

Where I am lost is in what regard are the Canterem faders different then the top left Cantar magnetic faders aside from feeling much better ( being PnG faders )?

Sorry for the confusion.

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Thanks David, so to recap,

The magnetic fader on the top left of the Cantar are acting like fader levels ( post trim ) sends to the mix track where the rotary controls ( top right ) are trims to the individual input/tracks.

Where I am lost is in what regard are the Canterem faders different then the top left Cantar magnetic faders aside from feeling much better ( being PnG faders )?

 

Essentially yes but with some minor deviations.

 

I don't think I would regard the rotary controls as trims. I view them more as full-range potentiometers similar to the level controls on a classic Nagra. With one full sweep, they control the full range (more or less) of the input. There is the added complexity that the sensitivity of each input may also be controlled with software settings. (But I expect you knew that already.)

 

The magnetic faders on the left deck, as you say, control only the levels from individual tracks to the mix. And, of course, this would only be the case when working hand-held or away from the cart. When on a cart and connected to a mixing panel, one wouldn't activate the mix-down feature and all inputs would be controlled from your Cooper/Sonosax/Yamaha. Then each track, including your mix track(s) would have level preset with line-up tone and none of the Cantar level controls would be touched during the recording.

 

There are several values to the Cantarem. It serves a very similar function to the Sound Devices CL-9 or the Zaxcom Mix-12. Those devices offer a few extra features for communication feeds but they are also much bigger. The Cantarem is remarkably compact, small enough to be used in an insert car. The main purpose is just to replace the small rotary faders (the line-level rotaries on the Cantar X1/X2 are quite small) with a smooth actuator. The P+G faders used have a 104mm stroke, about what you would expect on a full-size portable mixer.

 

It's also possible to assign any of the Cantarem faders to any input (or output for that matter) so that the panel can be readily configured in any way that makes sense for the operator. For instance, the faders for actors screen-left could be assigned to the left side of the Cantarem.

 

The Cantarem also has solo buttons for each track. Solos are available directly from the Cantar as well but they are small, ball-bearing-type buttons whereas the Cantarem provides larger buttons that may be easily labeled.

 

If the eight faders of the Cantarem are not sufficient to the assignment, two Cantarem can be ganged to provide sixteen faders.

 

And, since the Cantarem unit mates to the Cantar with a single connector it may be quickly removed for mobile work and easily reconnected again.

 

None of this comes cheaply but the functionality is quite high.

 

David

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Spot: 5.10 & 7.48

 

 

Interesting

very funny, goddardesque even - Alphaville's microphone sequence, incongruous sound Ie. the best audio kit in the word but we listening to a camera top mic with no suspension. I don't speak french so what is he saying (5.10 & 7.48)?

 

dan.

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Essentially yes but with some minor deviations.

 

I don't think I would regard the rotary controls as trims. I view them more as full-range potentiometers similar to the level controls on a classic Nagra. With one full sweep, they control the full range (more or less) of the input. There is the added complexity that the sensitivity of each input may also be controlled with software settings. (But I expect you knew that already.)

 

The magnetic faders on the left deck, as you say, control only the levels from individual tracks to the mix. And, of course, this would only be the case when working hand-held or away from the cart. When on a cart and connected to a mixing panel, one wouldn't activate the mix-down feature and all inputs would be controlled from your Cooper/Sonosax/Yamaha. Then each track, including your mix track(s) would have level preset with line-up tone and none of the Cantar level controls would be touched during the recording.

 

There are several values to the Cantarem. It serves a very similar function to the Sound Devices CL-9 or the Zaxcom Mix-12. Those devices offer a few extra features for communication feeds but they are also much bigger. The Cantarem is remarkably compact, small enough to be used in an insert car. The main purpose is just to replace the small rotary faders (the line-level rotaries on the Cantar X1/X2 are quite small) with a smooth actuator. The P+G faders used have a 104mm stroke, about what you would expect on a full-size portable mixer.

 

It's also possible to assign any of the Cantarem faders to any input (or output for that matter) so that the panel can be readily configured in any way that makes sense for the operator. For instance, the faders for actors screen-left could be assigned to the left side of the Cantarem.

 

The Cantarem also has solo buttons for each track. Solos are available directly from the Cantar as well but they are small, ball-bearing-type buttons whereas the Cantarem provides larger buttons that may be easily labeled.

 

If the eight faders of the Cantarem are not sufficient to the assignment, two Cantarem can be ganged to provide sixteen faders.

 

And, since the Cantarem unit mates to the Cantar with a single connector it may be quickly removed for mobile work and easily reconnected again.

 

None of this comes cheaply but the functionality is quite high.

 

David

Hi David,

 

You give a very good description of the Cantarem. For me, the big thing about the Cantarem is that each fader is assignable to either an input trim, a mix level or even an output. Pvanstry comments that if the linear faders on the X3 are better than on the X1/2, perhaps the fader panel is not necessary? The linear faders on the X1/2 had only a 45mm throw but I have mixed whole feature films with a stand alone Cantar X2 and those linear faders are very usable. Recently, Aaton produced a replacement 'slider plate' for the X1/2  with a teflon film on the underside and it has made the linear faders much smoother with lower friction. The X3 faders are 70mm throw and take that low friction a stage further and you would have no problem mixing a film on these faders.

 

The Cantarem 2 has 12 faders of 100mm throw - similar to the P+G of the Cantarem or Cooper or the the lovely smooth Ko-On faders used by Sonosax - but there are 12 of them. The Aaton designers have gone a stage further than the X3 on board faders by adding low friction rails as well as the 100mm throw. They are silky smooth and placed in front of or below the X3 on the cart will make for really good mixing.

 

Both the Cantarem 2 and the Cantar X3 linear faders are fully assignable to any function. So on the cart you could use some of the X3 linear faders to control aux outs for instance while doing the main mix on the Cantarem 2 (and the original Cantarem can also be used with the X3).

 

For big scenes, you could use 2 Cantarem 2s - they are only Mix-8 price. One for the production sound mixer and another for a second production sound mixer, splitting the dialogue between the two.

 

I went lightweight with my gear at the end of last year and have been using my X2s both stand alone and on the folding Rastorder with the Cantarem and it has been quite liberating. Yes I miss my lovely Sonosax which is a work of art. I miss the Sonosax eq but carefully selecting between for instance DPA 4061s and 4071s means that I have managed OK without eq. And, without an analogue desk, I am not bypassing the Aaton preamps which are boutique. The X3 will address the X1/2 track count shortfall in that I will have more than enough tracks, I will have full eq and the legendary preamps. Initially I will use my X3 with a Cantarem and when it becomes available, with a Cantarem 2. Fingers crossed, going from a Sonosax / X2 combo to an X3 / Cantarem 2 combo will be a favourable evolution.

 

Tim

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You give a very good description of the Cantarem.

 

Thank you.

 

And to Al and Pascal, glad I could help.

 

I didn't know about the low friction rails on the X3. It's good that the feel and function of the system are further enhanced. In my own experience, I used those on-board magnetic faders only occasionally as I was usually working from a cart and had a regular mixing panel available.

 

The Cantarem is a marvelously ingenious device. To fit all eight P+G faders into a space no wider than the front of the Cantar they fit them in at an angle. Then they bent the actuating flange up so that the plastic finger fittings would sit flat even as the faders were angled. Simple but clever.

 

It's difficult justifying conspicuously expensive gear like the Cantar when Sound Devices and Zaxcom are marketing such excellent products at much lower cost. And you do have to wrap your mind around some distinctly French layout much like working with Citroen or Eclair. But if the cost isn't an inhibition, Aaton offers some remarkable capabilities.

 

David

 

 

 

post-16-0-63114800-1425142172_thumb.jpg

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It's difficult justifying conspicuously expensive gear like the Cantar when Sound Devices and Zaxcom are marketing such excellent products at much lower cost. And you do have to wrap your mind around some distinctly French layout much like working with Citroen or Eclair. But if the cost isn't an inhibition, Aaton offers some remarkable capabilities.

 

David

 

David, you put it very well. I look at the long term with equipment. Some equipment costs a lot but if like my Schoeps mics for instance, I am still using it after 17 years, I have to look at it as good value. Not everyone can justify the cost and their only description of it is expensive. If you can cope with the initial expense, you will get much pleasure and many years of use out of a Cantar.

 

Tim

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  • 2 weeks later...

tim: have you heard whether arcan is being updated? ios? android?

 

There is an iOS app in the pipeline. I have spent some time on the Aaton stand at Micro Salon Italia over the weekend and loving he feel of the X3. Those linear faders are exceptionally smooth. I installed a new low friction slider plate on one of my X2s which works well but those X3 faders are in another league. 

post-631-0-87567200-1426447369_thumb.jpg

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There is an iOS app in the pipeline. I have spent some time on the Aaton stand at Micro Salon Italia over the weekend and loving he feel of the X3. Those linear faders are exceptionally smooth. I installed a new low friction slider plate on one of my X2s which works well but those X3 faders are in another league. 

thanks for that.  when is your x3 arriving? 

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