robertw Posted February 15, 2014 Report Share Posted February 15, 2014 On the chance that some of you may have tried both, I'd like to ask whether there is anything to choose between them. Are they substantially the same in performance or do they differ? Here are the models that I'm talking about: Cinela: http://www.cinela.fr/catalog.php?pid=74 Schoeps: http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/w20r1 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 My experience with the Schoeps basket without fur is that it had terrible internal reflections from off axis sounds. But this was a 20 or so year old model, maybe they've improved the material. I don't know if the furry one has the same 'interior' but I'd still go for the Cinela.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 My experience with the Schoeps basket without fur is that it had terrible internal reflections from off axis sounds. But this was a 20 or so year old model, maybe they've improved the material. I don't know if the furry one has the same 'interior' but I'd still go for the Cinela.. I have used the Schoeps W 20 R + R1 windscreen for many, many years, and it has been totally amazing how well it holds up outside even in sometimes heavy winds. I don't really understand the above statement "the Schoeps basket without fur" since the basket is just that, a basket --- the windscreen assembly is always the W 20 R (basket) and R1 (fur cover). I have the Cinela windscreens, Zephyx, Piano and Leonard, and comparing the Leonard (small ball) to the Schoeps windscreen, I feel the Schoeps is superior. The Zephyx and Piano, on the other hand, are both winners --- best windscreens I have ever used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 the windscreen assembly is always the W 20 R (basket) and R1 (fur cover). I did't realize that, seems logical . Well what holds me back from using it indoors anyway (without fur, as alternative to foam popscreen) was during a bed scene, where the sound of the sheets (off axis) where colored by the internal reflections of the ball. The material is (or was?) so hard it reflects sound. Rycote windshields also suffer from this but less I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Michiel: " the sound of the sheets (off axis) where colored by the internal reflections of the ball. " really..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Inside you might be better off using this: http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/b5d There is a thread here devoted to it, and some here consider it a brilliant product Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 Inside you might be better off using this: http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/b5d There is a thread here devoted to it, and some here consider it a brilliant product Thanks Constantin. This is for outdoors in light wind for mono and stereo (A/B Spaced and ORTF) with MK 41 and MK 2 mics. The specs for the B 5 D and W 5 D (both hollow foam) and W 20 R1 (basket with fur) are worth comparing. http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/b5d/specs: http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/w5d/specs: http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/w20r1/specs: As between the Cinela Leonard and Scheops W 20 R1, I think that I'd go with the Scheops. In addition to Jeff's comments, the Cinela would have to be ordered from Paris whereas the Scheops is readily available in New York via the distributor Redding Audio. I don't have the B 5 D hollow foam, but I do have the somewhat larger W 5 D. I use it indoors and outdoors in light wind, although it doesn't take a lot of wind to affect it. The question now is what real added benefit I would get from the W 20 R1 basket and fur, and at what cost to the sound. I plan to discuss this with Gotham Sound and/or Redding. One thing I'm wondering is whether it would make sense to put the fur cover for the W 20 R basket over the W 5 D, assuming that it can be done (they are the same diameter). It would certainly be less expensive. If anyone has additional comments, I'd be most appreciative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I just brought up the b5d because you were mentioning the bed scene where you thought you heard reflections from inside the "ball". So there you would've been better off using the b5d. but not outside, that's for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 I just brought up the b5d because you were mentioning the bed scene where you thought you heard reflections from inside the "ball". So there you would've been better off using the b5d. but not outside, that's for sure Hi, The post about the bed scene came from someone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Hi, The post about the bed scene came from someone else you're right. And to him I recommended the B5D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 the Cinela would have to be ordered from Paris>> i think pro sound NY has them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michiel Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 you're right. And to him I recommended the B5D. Thanks I always have used the foam windscreen(s). But I have assisted someone who used the ball (without fur) instead of the foam for indoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted February 17, 2014 Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 Thanks I always have used the foam windscreen(s). But I have assisted someone who used the ball (without fur) instead of the foam for indoors.ok, i have seen that a few times, too. I'm curious, how could you determine the reflections were coming from inside that ball? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted February 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2014 the Cinela would have to be ordered from Paris>> i think pro sound NY has them... I was at Pro Sound last week. They show the whole Cinela line on their web site, but the products are actually all special order. Gotham Sound has two Cinela Pianos in stock, but not the smaller mounts/windscreens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril Bourseaux Posted February 19, 2014 Report Share Posted February 19, 2014 I have used both with Schoeps CMC and In my experience Léonard provides much better outdoors wind protection (with fur of course). Leonard is also less fragile than w20 and holds to the mics very well with its two rubber rings. In fact I don't use the w20 anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted February 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2014 I have used both with Schoeps CMC and In my experience Léonard provides much better outdoors wind protection (with fur of course). Leonard is also less fragile than w20 and holds to the mics very well with its two rubber rings. In fact I don't use the w20 anymore. Merci. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ao Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 I saw the leonard, in stock, at my local trew. worth a shot, if you are interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Smith Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 FWIT: Years ago, I did some chamber measurements with various windscreens, including the Schoeps W20 and B20. With an MK41 capsule, there were definitely some mid-range response aberrations, as well a rather pronounced LF roll-off. I will have to see if I can dig them up and post them. The hollow ball windscreens, at least to my ears, have much less coloration than the baskets. One of these days, I'll get around to doing a full set of measurements.... --S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted February 28, 2014 Report Share Posted February 28, 2014 What about the Rycote 5cm Softie? Definitely a lower cost option, but how effective on a Schoeps? For light winds should be adequate I would think. Anyone compared the Softie to the BBG/W20/Leonard? I use a Softie 90% of the time on my shotguns for doc type work. The full Rycote only comes out in heavy wind. Another even cheaper option would be Rode's WS8 which is basically their version of a Softie made for their NT5. And it's $25. I haven't tried it yet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted March 1, 2014 Report Share Posted March 1, 2014 I've had pretty good luck with the Shure large foam windscreen, designed for the SM81 and SM57. I've used it in a pinch in light winds and inside cars. it's two layers of foam. it's a bit big, but fits my Schoeps well. I use a 19mm rubber o-ring around the mic at the capsule to keep the windshield on snug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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