chase jobs, or move markets?

[AlisonGrayson]

Hey all, 

 

I'm at a split road in my career path and having no real audio mentor to turn to, I'm hoping all you beautiful veterans could give me some advice.

 

I'm a Portland OR based non-union ENG mixer, specializing in documentary and reality style production.   I manage to keep myself pretty busy in Portland's job market and I've built myself up a decent gear package, network, and a ton of experience. Currently I work in Portland approx. 50% of the time, and the other 50% is travel gigs with production companies who like working with me and don't want the hassle of hiring local.  Less than 20% of my travel work is international, and the rest is domestic.  Most of my work is for independent productions, though I do work as a dayplayer for larger production companies who are producing Portland episodes, and I've got some pretty decent names and networks on my resume/client list.  I've been in production for seven years, but only the past 3-4 years have been focused on audio, so yes, I realize I'm pretty fresh in all this and I have plenty of room to grow, both experience wise and gear wise.

 

Ideally I'd like to stay in the documentary/reality genera (I'm one of those sickos that likes lugging their gear up mountains, down rivers, and having to filter tap water from seedy 3rd world hotels), but I'd like to up my game and do more work for productions on larger networks like Nat Geo, Discovery/Travel and their children networks, etc, and those jobs rarely pass through my market.  I just got off of a Hulu Series, and I'd really like to continue with episodic work as well.

 

I figure my options are to:

1. Follow these networks via StaffMeUp and other sites and apply to productions as a local in markets where I'm not a local and just swallow the expense, or

 

2. Relocate myself to a larger market, such as LA, where the productions I'd like to work for are based.  Since none of the LA production companies I'd like to work with actually produce in LA, I'm really not sure if this option would help me connect to the right people and get on the production's I'm looking for, or if those productions would just hire someone local to the production city anyway.

 

So, sorry this is a roundabout question, but any input or experiences would be greatly appreciated!

 

 

[Wandering Ear]

Promoting yourself as a local in a market you are not a local in is a bad idea imo. Travel costs shouldn't be your responsibility, will eat up all your money, and it's a precedent you don't want to build your career on.

everyone's path is unique, but don't undercut or undervalue yourself. You will be taken less seriously by those who look to hire you.

[Tom Visser]

1 is a bad idea.  2 is an option, but perhaps not with the benefits that you imagine.  Certainly you seem entrenched in your current market, and moving will likely set you back a bit with the progress you've made networking, unless you can split your time between both cities proportionally.  More and more television unscripted work uses relatively nomadic crews who don't necessarily belong to any specific geography - although NYC and LA do dominate this working force.  I'm currently on a production with LA, AZ, NY, and HI (me) crewed and since January, have been to DR, Ecuador, St. Lucia, and now currently in Turk Caicos.  If I wanted to pursue more of this traveling work, I think I could, although I'm gonna return to Hawaii in a couple weeks and work there through the summer and avoid any more significant travel for this year.  My own personal plan is to go to LA in about a month, hopefully finish my 695 application (I wonder how this recent board shakeup may affect my plans - or not) and stick a cautious toe into the LA market to at first, pursue a dual market career path.

[Michael Miramontes]

what is your day rate now?

[John Blankenship]

Some of your best contacts and supporters in this industry are other sound mixers. Trying to poach someone else's territory by working as a local when you're not is like poking a stick in their eye.

Add to that the fact that it erodes proper compensation for everyone and accelerates the race downhill.

The greatest thing anyone possesses in our biz is their reputation.  Always remember that a while a good reputation may take several years to earn, a bad reputation can take a lifetime to get rid of.

 

[Martin Kittappa]

Hi Allison,

 

Like you I do love the challenges and craziness of documentary and travel. Partly because projects in developing countries are often more meaningful, but mostly if I'm honest I just love the pressure of having to solve problems on the fly and having great stories of weirdness to tell.

 

Anyway, to your question: I have worked as local in other areas before at a time when work was quiet where I lived, and when I did, I  resented the fact that producer, director DP, AC were all flown in from wherever, getting all their expenses and per diems paid, whereas I had to find my own accommodation. All meals outside of shooting had to come out of pocket too. It really sucked. The out of town crew often being put up in a nice four star hotel, whereas I'm trying to save money by staying at the Comfort inn. Not only that, it really does eat into your rate. Yes I ran the calculations in my head- hotel for each night, travel costs, rental car and worked out that on longer projects it may be worth it financially, but anything less than four or five days and a huge percentage of your rate is gone. Of course it was my choice to work as a local, so I don't really have the right to complain, but one can't help the way one feels at the time.

 

I'm finding that productions are traveling sound less and less these days. Four years ago I was shooting all over the world, but now the bean counters in production offices are under pressure to save money by hiring locals. Crews hate it- especially on docu shoots as us sound mixers tend to double up as camera assistant, help set lights, help in corralling gear through airports etc.  DPs like having someone who knows all the nuances of the production. I've lost count of the times when camera guys have said to me that they wish that the production had travelled me as well- that local sound guy they hired just didn't click. I'm not saying that I'm better than the local guy they hired, but changing the crews around every location makes for a more disjointed work flow.

 

I guess I'm a little bitter about it right now as I recently got cut from a shoot in Hong Kong due to the budget. I was soft booked to fly out next month and then this week I get that call- 'We don't have the budget to fly you so we going to hire a local, sorry about that'.

 

The upside is that being in LA , there is more work coming from out of town productions looking to hire locals here. Recently I've worked locally for East coast shows, Koreans, Canadians, Japanese and British shows that didn't want to fly in a sound mixer.

 

Staff me up (used to be called reality staff.com) has really gone down hill lately. Since it changed, I'm noticing that the Craig's list types are beginning to post tuna sub jobs... And some of the places that productions are looking to hire a mixer to work 'As a local' are unbelievable. I looked at the map of some of the  dueling banjo towns they want to shoot in  and wonder how in the world they are going to find a local mixer there.

[old school]

I've never been in your shoes career wise, so factor that into my free advice. I think it is important to like where you live as much as like what you do in life. I was born and raised in SoCal and I love 90% of it. My only negative is the traffic. It's in my blood and while I've enjoyed many of the places I've been in life, I still want to live here. If Portland is your cup of tea (coffee is more like it up there) then that should count for a lot in your decision IMO. The plus of Portland to me is it's growing cultural clout and business future. Couple that with nearby Seattle as another market that is even growing bigger/faster for you to work in, it seems like a good situation to expand your business to me. Good luck.

CrewC

[studiomprd]

Martin: " I  resented the fact that producer, director DP, AC were all flown in from wherever, getting all their expenses and per diems paid, whereas I had to find my own accommodation. All meals outside of shooting had to come out of pocket too. It really sucked. "

but

" it was my choice to work as a local, so I don't really have the right to complain, "

 

OTOH, when I lived in Hawai'i, I was often the token local crew, and really appreciated the gigs!

we locals would hold somewhat similar resentments toward productions that didn't consider including some of our qualified locals...

especially when our local savvy would be of great value to an out-of-town production...

 

Martin, you have really addressed your own questions, and admitted your real current concern;  the reality is, that it works both ways.

" how in the world they are going to find a local mixer there. "

you even answered that one yourself...

Edited February 26, 2014 by studiomprd

[JonG]

I have taken jobs as a local out of town in cases where it was worth it, but I usually am able to negotiate lodging and travel expenses. But I do not recommend going this rout for the above stated reasons, unless you can negotiate things in your favor. This works best if the location does not have locals to draw crew from.

 

I live in Los Angeles, and although there is more work here than most places, there are also more sound mixers, which means more competition for those jobs. If you have something going for you where you live, and there isn't much in the way of competition, then I would suggest staying put and working the surrounding area as well. If you want to get in on those bigger jobs, networking with other local mixers and crew will be the best thing you can do. Starting over in a place like Los Angeles, which is an expensive city to live in, will more than set you back, it will be starting over. The only advantage you will have is a kit and some experience, but that will not guarantee work.

 

Productions working for bigger clients like NetGeo or Discovery do not always offer a decent rate, so, although those jobs might look good on a resume, they do not always come with fair compensation. Really you need to weigh the pros and cons out for yourself, but I think there has been some good advice by the people in this forum to go by. Best of luck!

[Philip Perkins]

I would agree that working for NatGeo or Discovery may not really be the aspiration you think it is--they are really really cheap, about everything, including crew safety.  If you are thinking of moving to LA, I'd strongly recommend a recon trip (if you haven't done so already) and see how it feels to you, and see what you can scare up work wise.  There have been a few folks around this board lately who took the plunge moving to LA for work and they seemed to do ok, so it can be done.  You will not have the sort of QOL in LA you had in Portland as a newbie, maybe even after a few years, but for many people making the move the change in work has been worth it.  If it doesn't work out, Portland will still be there!

 

philp

[Tom Visser]

One of the most impossibly incredible WTF moment was on an unnamed production company's (but relevant given the conversation) shoot here in Hawaii, where I had to grab a cameraman in water he was certainly not qualified to be in and swim him to shore during a winter time "wet drop".  Hawaii - winter - big waves - what were they thinking?

[Michael McQueen]

1. no

 

2. no, at least in my opinion. i'm not a fan of LA. no offense to those who live in that glorious town, but its not for me.

 

i've toyed with the idea of moving early in my career but i've stayed firmly planted in central NC, which has even less production than portland. but what i have done is diversify my clientele across the board. i try and spread my work across a bunch of genres of sound. but for some reason its been a lot of sports the past year and half. i try and make and keep great relationships with my clients and work hard as hell for them, while having a good ass time doing it. 

[AlisonGrayson]

Thanks for the input!  Ya, when I was thinking about playing local I did wonder if it was a faux pas, though a surprising amount of non-audio industry colleagues I talked to in Portland did it on the regular, but Portland doesn't have a ton of competition for good, non-union sound people.  We're lucky that there's enough work to go around and enough niches, and the cost of living vs. value of life Portland offers is super awesome.  But, gray winters, and 5 year itch, though damned if freelancing makes moving terrifying. 

 

And agreed, generally speaking the jobs I like the most and the jobs that work me hardest are the lower paying ones, but I'm in a spot where I value the experience and the challenge more than the pay.  I'm also at a spot when I realize there will be an expiration date to that mentality, so I figure I should rock it out when I can physically and financially afford to.

[studiomprd]

JonG: " I have taken jobs as a local out of town in cases where it was worth it, but I usually am able to negotiate lodging and travel expenses. "

oxymoron:  if you get travel and lodging expenses, then you are not working as a local.

[deep owl]

I love Portland. I'll trade you places. Just realize that rents/mortgages and traffic here in SoCal will make you furious.

 

I'm also open to Hawaii if Tom V wants to trade places. My time in Maui last month was wonderful and I'd like to go back to the islands...maybe start a coffee, avocado, pineapple farm.

 

Dreams.

[Henchman]

Even though I am in audio post, I lived from Vancouver to LA almost 6 years ago, and don't regret it one bit.

I would try LA if I was you. Any other market won't be any better than where you are now.

[Richard Nault]

I love Portland. I'll trade you places. Just realize that rents/mortgages and traffic here in SoCal will make you furious.

I'm also open to Hawaii if Tom V wants to trade places. My time in Maui last month was wonderful and I'd like to go back to the islands...maybe start a coffee, avocado, pineapple farm.

Dreams.

+1. Man, do I ever love Portland! I would do everything I could to stay there!

I moved from a larger market to a smaller market a little over 5 years ago... And have managed to stay as busy, and about the same mix of travel shoots and local shoots.... Slightly less cost of living, and life at a slightly slower pace, so on balance, life is probably better off in the smaller market.

R

[codyman]

Seems to be the big fish in a little pond vs little fish in a big pond scenario.  I think the biggest priority no matter where you decide to work out of is to realize whom your clientele is and are you going to lose those clients if you make the move.  Also, in a market like LA (or even worse so, NY), you have to factor in the increased cost of living expenses alongside the fact that you'll have a lot more people doing what you do (rent alone can be an eye opener... you want me to pay how much for this tiny room!?!?)

 

All in all, if you do decide to move, I'd recommend going somewhere where you know people and have the possibly of working with them / being introduced to others.  90%+ of my gigs here in LA come from people I've worked with in the past or are referrals.  I rarely get someone that's randomly stumbled upon my website or otherwise (although one of my biggest clients now came to be because I was tagged in a friend's Facebook photo and someone happened to see that I was a sound mixer and happened to need one for an ad spot.  Many projects and thousands of dollars later, best random use of Facebook ever / go figure....)

[Philip Perkins]

Listen, I hear you about the Northwest, I left there myself in a somewhat similar situation though I wasn't as well as estab'ed or experienced as you are now.  The winters did kind of get to me, and it was really hard to move up with other folks being more established and not that much work in general (I should also say that nationwide economic dips seemed to hit harder there than in bigger places).  While I was pretty comfortable, I wasn't really getting anywhere and I figured I'd better try my luck elsewhere while I was young, able and unattached.   It worked out pretty well for me, I'd say (I'm in SF, riding another tech boom, not LA).  Unless you have family or other deep attachments in Portland….like I said, Portland will still be there...

 

philp

[syncsound]

Hi Allison!

 

As a fellow PDX soundie, let me add my perspective: I think you're doing it right already. One key in our market is to diversify, so that you'll be covered if one regular avenue of work dries up. You're young and healthy, which means you're more willing to do the long haul reality stuff over hill and dale (which I'm getting too old for!). You have a lot of value to producers as such a mixer.

 

The one thing I would recommend is two fold: raise your rates, and start saying no on occasion. I made a conscious choice to do this a few years ago. It was scary at first to pass on work ( and to "break up" with a client on one occasion), but it was worth it. I work fewer days, but those days pay better, and more importantly, are more on my terms, with regards to length, OT, etc.  I don't mind working a long, tough day so long as I'm respected, and being taken care of, by my clients.

 

It sounds like you're right where I was at my 5 year mark, when I made the above change. Doing so took some time to get used to, and it still isn't easy, but worth it over the long term.

 

And finally, we do need to get that damned beer!

[ProSound]

 

The one thing I would recommend is two fold: raise your rates, and start saying no on occasion. I made a conscious choice to do this a few years ago. It was scary at first to pass on work ( and to "break up" with a client on one occasion), but it was worth it. I work fewer days, but those days pay better, and more importantly, are more on my terms, with regards to length, OT, etc.  I don't mind working a long, tough day so long as I'm respected, and being taken care of, by my clients.

 

It sounds like you're right where I was at my 5 year mark, when I made the above change. Doing so took some time to get used to, and it still isn't easy, but worth it over the long term.

 

 

 

As someone who is also in a smaller market I agree with everything above. Be diverse in what your doing is the key I do it all from reality tv to feature films and everything in between. Your doing things the right way, I know how it is to feel like your not working enough just keep motoring along and you will be fine. 

[AlisonGrayson]

 

And finally, we do need to get that damned beer!

 

 

Truth, lol.  I'm around town for a few more days and again in the latter half of the month.  Text or PM me and we'll figure it out!  And I'm getting better at saying no, slowly, very slowly, though honestly my "no's" are still vastly related to rates.

 

 

I'm also open to Hawaii if Tom V wants to trade places. My time in Maui last month was wonderful and I'd like to go back to the islands...maybe start a coffee, avocado, pineapple farm.

 

Dreams.

 

I'm totally down for an audio/farming/hippie commune growing avocados.  Who's in?

 

 

 

I have a decent amount of LA and SF connections from working so frequently with out of town crews...now if only I could make enough money to summer in Portland and winter in Cali!  Thanks for the advice everyone, you definitely gave me some points to chew over.

[Tom Visser]

I'm totally down for an audio/farming/hippie commune growing avocados.  Who's in?

 

 

 

I have a decent amount of LA and SF connections from working so frequently with out of town crews...now if only I could make enough money to summer in Portland and winter in Cali!  Thanks for the advice everyone, you definitely gave me some points to chew over.

 

I'm in, never been a hippie, more of a midwest / military background, but a quick learner.  Big Island, Puna coast would be the best call for that I would think.

[Nick Campbell]

I moved from Olympia, WA nine months ago to LA. I was working some in the PAC NW but wanted to work everyday. LA gave me that opportunity. Are there a lot of mixers here? Absolutely, but I've carved a niche for myself and have steady clients and make a decent living that keeps going up every month. I'm also only paying $425/mo for rent, and still drive my economy car so costs stay low. I live in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood and food is delicious, plentiful, and cheap.

I love it here, but do miss the community aspects of the Pacific NW. And the excellent public transportation. It's a tough decision, but for me it has paid off and I get to do what I love for work in the sun! (Except the last two days of overnight shoots semi-outdoorsminnthe rain. Boo-Urns!)

Good luck with whatever you choose!