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UNION Help Please - Business Agents ?


mikefilosa

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( List updated on 4.10.14 - MF )

 

Very important information quest here -

 

Can anyone provide some insight, or simple one line answers for me regarding your union

or your local?  (focusing on Stage Mechanics)

 

Is your Business Agent elected by membership voting

OR -

selected and appointed by your executive board?

 

Please Correct me if I am wrong below ...... one line just fine, or em me -    mike at afpusa dot tv

 

  52 - NY, NJ, Philly - currently elected by membership vote

  44 - LA - currently elected by membership vote

695 - L.A - currently elected by membership vote

728 - LA - currently elected by membership vote

487 - Mid Atlantic - currently elected by membership vote

  44 - LA - currently elected by membership vote

476 - Chicago - currently elected by membership vote

479 - Atlanta - currently elected by membership vote

490 - Minnesota - currently elected by membership vote

491 - Carolinas - currently selected and hired by executive board

477 - Florida - currently elected by membership vote

478 - Louisiana - currently elected by membership vote

484 - Texas - currently elected by membership vote

488 - Pacific NW - currently elected by membership vote

480 - New Mexico -  ??

481 - New England - currently elected by membership vote

493 - Missouri

494 - San Fran - ??

495 - San Diego - ??

 

Please forgive me if I left any local out - but I'd like to have an answer to the question as it might apply to ANY Stage Mechanic IATSE Local.  Hit me up!

 

Thanx very much for any and all insights....

 

MF

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Thanks Chicago, thanks Florida -

Anyone in the Pacific Northwest?  New England? Anyone in Minnesota?  New Mexico ?

 

Looking for the answer to the question, and confirmations of the above as well....

 

Important and time sensitive -

Many thanks for your responses....

 

MF

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Bud -

 

PM sent as well ---

 

There is a Revised Constitution proposed and presented that will change the Business Agent position from one that is elected by the general membership to one that is appointed by the Executive Board of the Local.

Regarding Business Agents, we have been told that this is a common and growing practice with Locals around the country.

 

However, so far I have only verified that 491 / Carolinas uses this process.  The only one. There must be a good reason, but I haven't been contacted by a local 491 historian to give me the background ( I'd love a confidential chat with anyone from 491 over this)

 

Examples presented by proponents of this process were 491, and then mention was actually made of SAG and DGA - god knows why, as these unions have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with IATSE or technician concerns (though IF they could teach us how to get residuals, well - yeah!)

 

There is no other example, in the nation, of a comprehensive (multi-craft) IATSE Studio Mechanics local other than 491 using such a procedure towards the employ of a business agent.  To date, there are no known examples of dedicated-craft unions (I just created that term, don't know what would best describe..) like 695, or 44 that uses such a process either.   Some one made mention that the Makeup national (NYC?) does, but I have no official verification.   What about 600 ?  I thought that was elected, right? 

 

http://www.iatse-intl.org/member-resources/local-union-directory

 

has been an interesting link - the designation I am using for comparisons are "SM" ...  you'll see what I mean if you poke around the page a little...  many many of the locals are more about stagecraft and theater, thus not really apropo to the info I seek. 

 

I am hoping to hear from more members of more locals regarding this, so that I can present an actual real assessment.

As we all know, there is always the possibility that what we have been told is not exactly gospel truth, perhaps an accidental product of salesmanship........ 

 

MF

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320 (M, Savannah) that also used to have the movie rights of an SM local that have been taken/given to 491 (for reasons I cannot fathom) checking in: We elect our BA from the membership, however he has seen fit to move his person and lifestyle full-time to NYC to pursue membership in Local 1 as of at least 3 years ago. He has NOT decided to do the honorable thing and resign his position... Even though an absentee BA is badly hurting the stage business in Savannah, AND we have lost jobs with companies that refuse to work with us specifically because he is our BA.

 

It isn't all sunshine and daisies here in The South, now is it?

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The hiring status of the "national locals" Executive Directors, which is what they sometimes call themselves, was implemented long before their Local's contracts extended beyond one state and bear no relation to that fact.  It's merely a choice those Locals made after debating the very significant pros and cons of each side of the argument.  The tendency appears to be that hired BA's become very entrenched.  Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't know any examples of a hired BA being replaced by decision of the Board.  Although elected BA's can also entrench to some degree, the hired BA is usually "BA for Life" and this may turn out to be the biggest argument against hiring.  The upside, of course, centers around things like consistency and avoiding the 3-year cycle of election craziness and doing things just to get elected and possibly having to retrain new people over and over again.  Whether on either side of the argument, it seems like it's not an easy choice.

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No, it is putting it accurately.  Some elected BA's last only a term or two and some last many years.  I don't think you can disprove that and there's nothing diplomatic about it.  Yes, when you've held the job... hired or elected.. it is easier to continue to hold the job whether based on good performance or on political strength and power built up by virtue of holding the job.

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I see two very different components to this discussion. The issue raised by the original poster asks about the merits of a hired versus an elected BA.  Senator seems to have changed the question to, Is it better to choose someone who has experience as a labor professional or someone who has experience in your craft.  Hiring versus electing refers to the pros and cons associated with job security, popularity contests, accountability, member input, and more.  Choosing someone in the craft versus someone from the outside asks whether it's better to teach a film technician how to handle labor issues or teach a labor professional what the heck it is that we do.  I usually lean toward the labor professional but I'm not really sure.  I've seen membership meetings where the voice of the people tends to express a very loud opinion to the contrary.  It's a topic that can bring out very strong emotions.

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Laurence: " Senator seems to have changed the question "

that was not my intention, but that seemed to be where the OP's question, and the ensuing discussion was going *; although the questions are different,  I think it is a legitimate expansion of the discussion...

* especially with the inclusion of so many IATSE locals, and then SAG/AFTRA... (what about teamsters?)...

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The issue raised by the original poster asks about the merits of a hired versus an elected BA. 

 

 

It's a topic that can bring out very strong emotions.

 

Laurence,

Thank you very much for the info, and others as well.  I actually hope to get more input from this inquiry, and hope to fill in the list, at the head of this thread, so that it can become a definitive "document" regarding the salesman-like presentation to our membership that  implementation of this process as "common and growing."  Judging from the list so far, it is clearly NOT.

 

Though my opinions on this proposed process are steadfast, I do have to say that the original intent of the thread and inquiry was strictly to validate, or invalidate, the "selling" of this to our membership as a "common and growing" change among IATSE locals.  At the onset of this inquiry, I simply did not know one way or the other, and now I do....

 

However ,  ALL opinions, observations, thoughts, and affirmations of the list items with respect to IA Locals are appreciated, and I hope it continues....  good debate.

 

Yes, indeed, this is a tough topic that does bring out some strong emotions.

 

MF

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At the IA convention last summer, there was a discussion about eligibility to run for office.  The argument centered around a recently implemented rule that requires candidates for office must have at least 120 days worked in their craft in the 3 years prior to election.  One side argued that a long-time member nearing retirement might easily fall short of the required 120 days but could, after possibly decades in the business, prove to be a huge asset as an elected officer of the local.  To my surprise, delegates burst out with boisterous shouts of disapproval, with speaker after speaker taking to the microphone insisting that if you haven't worked consistently in the business during the last few years, then you can go take a hike 'cause we don't want ya!  I disagree strongly but I appear to in the minority on that issue and the effort to modify the 120-day rule failed.  I suspect it's very nearly the same voice you'll be hearing as you move forward with your proposal that could mean employing a BA who had no work days at all in the business.

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So THATs what that beef was about --

I did read reference to something like that recently from a "senior" member of this group, and personally I think that is a travesty.  

For THIS particular person, if I am correct in my assumption, well - in light of recent developments out in your neighborhood - that union just lost out on a chance at a great legacy leader and candidate....... 

I am with you, completely, on disagreeing strongly about rejecting the experience and wisdom of such candidates, regardless of any recent working track-record.  Frankly, if the candidate offers a degree of seasoned diplomacy, experience in a craft, the toughness and tenacity to enforce the rules (both on production AND on members), and the personal skills needed to connect with membership and earn their votes - well it's clearly a major "wrong" to deny any local's membership based on that criteria. 

I have been to a National Convention - a LOT of what goes on there pertains to StageHands and Theatrical stuff - a whole different world than ours...  and major differences in skillsets and hiring practices.  That's where I learned what a "hiring hall" is about.

A very important clarification here - this is not "my proposal" by any means -
I will state right now that I am NOT in favor of such a move. 
ANYTHING that diminishes a member's right to vote on his / her's representation is completely against my principals, which are rooted in pure democracy, however utopian that seems to be.    The assignment of such a duty to an Executive Board, without any good reason whatsoever, and sold to the membership with less-than-true statements regarding this change as a "trend" in IA Leadership, is not going to be well received.  Taking away a member's right to vote and participate, in a right-to-work state, is rather unwise, for at what point will a member question their whole affiliation anyway.   Start with the crappy ASA, then add to that the "tax" or assessment, and then take away existing rights to participate and vote?  I do not think such a move would be well received at all. 

The assignment of such a duty to an Executive Board is fundamentally establishing a de facto "electoral college"....  and that really worked well for the nation back in the 2000 elections, didn't it?   Popular vote over-ridden... and then George Bush Jr. for 8yrs.
IN this version, there isn't even a popular vote. 
Why, because "we don't care about your popular vote... just give us your dues and your 3%, and we got it from here - trust us".
Think about it - a majority of a 7 or 9 member executive board means that no more than 4 or 5 votes will determine everything.
I could not think of anything worse, in pursuit of true democracy and representation. 

 

SO - thank you for informing us / me of this 120 / 3yr working criteria established and reinforced at a recent National IATSE convention.  For me, I find the notion that a 4 or 5 person majority of a local's executive board can be empowered to hire anyone they want to off the street or not, is stunning incongruous with such newly established and ratified IATSE criteria...  stunningly.

 

MF

 

This is no small thing. 
 

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BUMP -

 

Calling out to Pacific Northwest - 488, Missouri - 493, San Fran - 494,, and San Diego - 495

 

Can anyone provide some insight, or simple one line answers for me regarding your union

or your local?  (focusing on Stage Mechanics)

 

Is your Business Agent elected by membership voting

OR -

selected and appointed by your executive board?

 

Looking to complete the survey and fill in the blanks as soon as I can.

 

Thanx in advance -

 

MF

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delegates burst out with boisterous shouts of disapproval

 

I was that person referred to, who is no longer allowed to run for business agent of my only local union since 1976, it's not surprising at all. The IA typically always goes the way of the leaders in power at any time.  In this case, before my resolution to change the amendment was brought before the convention floor last summer, I sent IA President Loeb a letter asking for special consideration based on my current and past history of the union and our industry. He turned me down.

 

Then I along with some 695 members tried to loosen the restriction with an amendment at the IA Convention floor. There is first an all knowing resolutions committee who gives a floor recommendation the next day of which resolutions they approve and disapprove of. What they say is very persuasive to the floor members who have been busy all convention taking duck rides and city tours. I got there early and asked to speak on my resolution. I was told I could and that they would call me in when it came up. When I( was called in, I was told they would hear me but the resolution was already voted upon for non concurrence.  That's union democracy in action. I spoke but it was wasted breath.

 

On the floor the next day, without their concurrence it stood little chance. When the resolution came up on the floor the next day, the members were told that the recommendation was for non concurrence, of course.  Then speakers came up and spoke most vociferiously against it. A few got up in support but were ill prepared. Finally, by the time I was allowed to speak, I was told I only had 3 lousy minutes to talk on one of the most important issues at a convention that is was otherwise a boring love fest. Of course I was shot down. 

 

I then sent another letter to President Loeb again asking for a special exemption to run for Local 695 election.

 

I then went to the Labor Board who has no heart for these local union matters and was blown off. They said to run for election, then after I'm disallowed, they would jump into it. I didn't bother.

 

I am a huge lifetime supporter of unions and believe in the concept deeply. Unfortunately, the unions themselves have become a corporate entity. It's sad that union members are often at the bottom of the shit pile and would have to rail against their unions corporate structure AND the producers at the same time. A few have tried to do just that and most have failed. Resistance is futile.

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Damn John, that is a sad tale indeed.

 

I could tell you about some similar BS happening on the stage side, which has made me question my desire to be involved with IA (at least in The South) where featherbedding seems to be the MO of the elected aristocracy. 

Those in power don't want to share, except with those that they consider friend. If you aren't part of the clique, then the answer is you can politely just bugger off. (But thanks for the money anyway) Anything they can do to be difficult, will be done. 2 different members have been able to transfer from a "mixed" local to 700... But the answer I was told tonight when asking yet again for a transfer card was that their transfers were "different" somehow and I was ignored yet again. The first time I asked for the card was 4 years ago.

 

Meanwhile, I was informed that despite an admitted error by the treasurer, in failing to record a payment from me (when I had the stamp) and ALSO failing to even send out any notification prior, I would remain expelled for non-payment. This, despite the fact that this treasurer never answers his phone or messages, and multiple members (including the ones that were somehow able to transfer) had attested to. Talk about entrenched - he has been a WORTHLESS treasurer for as long as I have been in this local. I was cordially invited to START OVER and re-apply as a new member if I wanted to be reinstated. Knowing that this would put me up for yet another application fee AND the vote-by-the-clique... I figure to start over somewhere else where they actually follow their own bylaws entirely, and not when they feel like it.

 

Sad. So much for representation and supporting each other. Its all about the e-board and the benjamins.

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