JBMangini Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Arrived on location today, powered up my 633, and surprise! None of the inputs will work. After running several tests, I called Sound Devices tech support (Casey) and was informed that they hadn't seen this problem yet. No explanation, no solution. Fortunately I had a 302 in my bag and was able to record to a camera, potentially saving a client and a reputation. Unfortunately several upcoming gigs require a little more than a 302. This 633 was purchased from Trew Audio (Nashville) in November. They too were contacted and seemed to wipe their hands clean so far. Aside from telling me that they offer a 30 day return policy, they have yet to offer any assistance. Anyone else been down this road? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProSound Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 SD will sent you a loaner while they look at yours. So I suggest you do that I have had my 633 since day 1 of release with zero issues but I never leave home without 2 recorders I always have my 664 in the van and a zoom h4n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 So you just pulled out your 788T, 744T or Maxx right ... no big deal... And in doing so saved your reputation by being responsible enough to carry more than one recorder in your kit... Gear, no matter how old or new has issues from time to time. It is never convenient or fun, but this is part of understanding how field audio works. You simply go get another piece of gear and move on. One can even practice and fire drill how fast they can move from one broken machine to another working standby machine. Do you prep a backup and have it on the standby with a card loaded and the data for scene and show loaded?... Some people do... I do from time to time.... depending on the situation. You can not expect the store you bought it from to help you here and now over the phone... you did the right thing by calling the mothership... you may have to send it in for service... not the end of the world. Welcome to field audio recording... As of now your reputation is that of a guy with no back up recorder... You may want to put on a fire suit... LOL and hold on.. By the way, I have dealt with Casey MANY MANY times.... Very nice guy... ALWAYS helpful...But... his skills of examining and diagnosing problems with audio equipment while looking through a phone line are a bit rough... It must be difficult to see that clearly through the wires and then the cell towers from all the way in Wisconsin. But... he tries... BEFORE sending it.... with a clear and calm head.... at home... with a drink in your hand... really go through it... it MAY be something dumb... It would NOT be the first time.... sometimes it's hard to see through the stress of a problematic piece of gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Please ignore this question if it strays too far from the thread, but as a matter of curiosity, what did people do for backup in the Nagra analog days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Please ignore this question if it strays too far from the thread, but as a matter of curiosity, what did people do for backup in the Nagra analog days? I had two.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Exactly. Always had a backup recorder with me. In the Nagra years it could always be just another identical Nagra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Detsikas Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 When my 633 first arrived right out of the box the first channel wouldn't see any signal no matter what kind of input it was. Tried everything but sent it back and has been fine since. Not sure exactly what the problem was. I like to keep a backup system in my bag. For simple gigs usually just a SD mix pre-d with the correct cables to have 4 inputs and run that into the recorder that's built into the ifb200. Doesn't take up much space and cost effective. Not ideal but works great in a pinch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBMangini Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 After several hours of tinkering, a friend suggested reloading the most recent firmware. Voila! Back in business! And the 302 and H4n combo will forever remain in my bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I had two.... yep. And sometimes a Sony D5 cassette with the pilotone mod as well. With Nagra reel machines, if you had a real problem there was rarely an easy fix, and people who could fix such a machine were not necessarily available on the phone, which would have been a pay phone off set somewhere in any case. (No cel phones, no internet.) Showstopper problems were rare but they did happen--moreso after TC came in. In places other than LA or NYC there was no rental house to call to bring you another machine usually. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 After several hours of tinkering, a friend suggested reloading the most recent firmware. Voila! Back in business! And the 302 and H4n combo will forever remain in my bag. Voila indeed. Yay backup. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Exactly. Always had a backup recorder with me. In the Nagra years it could always be just another identical Nagra. Interesting, although not surprising when doing critical work, that you guys would take two recorders rather than just extra parts. If I may, a couple of additional questions: Did those of you who used Nagras, or someone you would regularly work with, know how to troubleshoot a Nagra and, if necessary, replace a part (assuming that you carried parts)? In today's dollars, how much was a Nagra compared to a current digital recorder (1) of similar quality and of an equivalent number of tracks and (2) of a number of tracks that would now be considered equal to Nagra delivery? I realize that question (2) is rather slippery. I'm just asking these questions out of historical interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBMangini Posted March 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Thanks robertw, I was wondering much of the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertw Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 With Nagra reel machines, if you had a real problem there was rarely an easy fix, and people who could fix such a machine were not necessarily available on the phone, which would have been a pay phone off set somewhere in any case. (No cel phones, no internet.) Showstopper problems were rare but they did happen--moreso after TC came in. In places other than LA or NYC there was no rental house to call to bring you another machine usually. We cross-posted. Thanks, this answers my first question about troubleshooting and parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Yea just buy one of the Zoom H6's or something and all the emergency backups needed to make it work in a pinch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 On my first movie as a mixer,I had two nagras break down after riding on rough roads for about 3 hours.Freaked out and in the middle of nowhere, I took one apart on a furniture pad and fixed it.actually the nagra was a real professional machine and therefore pretty logically put together.When those DAT machines came along,that was the end of that. J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Interesting, although not surprising when doing critical work, that you guys would take two recorders rather than just extra parts. If I may, a couple of additional questions: Did those of you who used Nagras, or someone you would regularly work with, know how to troubleshoot a Nagra and, if necessary, replace a part (assuming that you carried parts)? In today's dollars, how much was a Nagra compared to a current digital recorder (1) of similar quality and of an equivalent number of tracks and (2) of a number of tracks that would now be considered equal to Nagra delivery? I realize that question (2) is rather slippery. I'm just asking these questions out of historical interest. I did not repair them in the field... and, mine never had a problem.... Ever.. With a 4.2 mono it was one track.... with a IV-S TC.. it was two tracks.... they were about $12,000 a piece back then for a IV-S TC.. When you lifted the lid to expose the guts ... it was amazing... very nice inside and nothing I wanted to dig into... I used to say that the inside was like looking at a Space Shuttle component... When DATs came out I remember thinking it looked like a VCR machine inside... Nothing like the Nagra... If you did have a problem, you could open the capstan, lift off both reels, and drop them onto another machine... It was easy.... and off you went... Only a few adjustments on the slide out Time code tray were needed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stalder Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 I still think I would have more than 1 recording machine, little things happen. I was on a train in Java, Indonesia with a minimum rig and the Nagra stopped. After a few agonising moments I checked the fuse. It was gone, so I wrapped a bit of cigarette paper foil around it & off she went good as gold. As others have said I had 3 Nagras and I always had 2 with me, often as well as the modded Sony D5 cassette recorder. That was the only repair I ever had to do except for dropping it in the surf when I was filming Elle Macpherson for Sports Illustrated, but you couldn't blame me for that. I took the batteries out, sent it back to the mother ship, left it in a tub of fresh water for a while & then left it in the engine room for a day. I still have it & it still works. I originally had a 4L + 4.2 - then sold the 4L & bought an IS & a 1VS (pilot tone) Nagra 4.2 was the most expensive of my purchases @ AUD$1450.00 (new) in early 80s.... Australian $ was fairly low in value then. (now I have 3 drills, just in case) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim M Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Not to cause offense, but I can't imagine the Nomad being that antiquated when I get older, but it will be, probably sooner than a Nagra was that is for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Did those of you who used Nagras, or someone you would regularly work with, know how to troubleshoot a Nagra and, if necessary, replace a part (assuming that you carried parts)? In today's dollars, how much was a Nagra compared to a current digital recorder (1) of similar quality and of an equivalent number of tracks and (2) of a number of tracks that would now be considered equal to Nagra delivery? I realize that question (2) is rather slippery. I purchased a loaded 4.2 in the mid-80's (2 universal preamps, the QLSI built-in synchronizer, pilot freq. meter, a KAT15, a custom made bag and strap, ATN, etc.) for about $3,500 if I recall correctly. It recorded one track for about 48 minutes per 7" reel of 1 mil tape. I carried head cleaning supplies and spare fuses, a necessity because I sometimes powered Micron radio receivers off the internal battery box. A 4L served as backup. Recording media made me a decent profit, bought at about $7 or $8 a roll and billed out for about $15 or so a roll to the client. I was lucky to live a few blocks away from a great Nagra tech, Evan Mater, so maintenance was pretty easy. I had timecode Nagras as well, $12Kish per each ready to work and I loved DAT recorders so much I had 3, 1 purchased new and 2 bought used. You needed 3 if you worked a lot 'cause they were finicky. The upside of DAT was a decent profit on media. In late 2012 I purchased a 664 for about $4,000. It was a 10 track recorder a the time, now a 16 track recorder via firmware updates. I've spent about $1,400 on various bags for it looking for a good fit for me. I've also spent about $200 in parts for cables and who knows how much for recording media. I carry a Cooper CS104/Sound Devices 744T as backup although I've yet to have any problems since the first firmware update. I'll be buying a 633 eventually, maybe soon if a job from last year resumes production. It's hard to make a markup on media since I most often hand off the work via a DIT or DropBox upload, My 664 is pretty great, with no to low routine maintenance, as opposed to about $400 a year in bench time per Nagra for alignment and maintenance and maybe the same for each of the DATs if they only needed cleaning and calibration, more if repairs were necessary (they always were). Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomboom Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Studiomprd: "... change the title of this thread ? " ...you bad boy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 For the record, according to the fun/depressing US Labor dept calculator http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm $3500 1985 US dollars equals about $7600 2014 US dollars. $12,000 1985 US dollars equals about $26,000 2014 US dollars. Yow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafaeldelauz Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 There is an avalanche of used Sd552 in the market right now at very good prices. Those are very powerful back up machines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 change the title on this thread..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 Having a backup is the way to go but I am not hauling a second recorder around. In case shit happens my backup is on the zaxcom wireless TXs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 26, 2014 Report Share Posted March 26, 2014 rado: " Having a backup is the way to go " Having a backup nearby, readily available, is the way to go... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.