New Recorder from SD, the "970"

[John Saunders]

And the QL1 weighs 48 pounds, which is not exactly what I would call a portable mixer.

Except that it only weights 32.1 lbs which is less than an 01v96 (Think you were looking at the QL5). Still not a small mixer but for cart based work or audio for broadcast (which is what I do) seems like a nice solution. Plus with built in dante and Dugan and 2 card slots for other stuff it's weight seems less of an issue cause you don't have to carry around much else.

If I didn't have a pix260 I would jump at this in a second. Maybe I can talk my boss into getting one anyway... for redundancy of course

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[Marc Wielage]

Except that it only weights 32.1 lbs which is less than an 01v96 (Think you were looking at the QL5). Still not a small mixer but for cart based work or audio for broadcast (which is what I do) seems like a nice solution. Plus with built in dante and Dugan and 2 card slots for other stuff it's weight seems less of an issue cause you don't have to carry around much else.

 

That chart was hard to read! My error. Still too big for a cart. There's lots and lots of mixing consoles that would work fine for broadcasting that I think don't exactly resemble (say) a Cooper CS208, which was 20 pounds and exactly the right size to fit a cart and ran on 12VDC. The more recent PSC Solice also would work perfectly and was designed exactly for film & TV sound. Trying to shoehorn these other devices into our narrow category is never easy... though I have to say, the 01V96 comes close, and I know there's a Dante board available for it, demoed last year by LSC. 

 

The QL1 wouldn't work for me, but I'd have no problem with others wanting to use it. And I did use Yamaha 03D, 02R, and D1000 consoles for many, many years in post and liked them a lot. The difference there is, they were permanently installed, never moved, and AC operation (and heat) wasn't a problem. 

[John Saunders]

Yeah I see your point for cart based systems. Your right it is hard to get a box that works for every environment. I admit that a lot of times a box that works well for me and my work I try to make fit into other workflows. I haven't really done cart based audio but it was my understanding that a o1v96 was a popular choice and I think that the ql1 has everything and more that 01v does (although not 96khz) and that is why I mentioned it. I think that dante is and will continue to become more of a standard and the yamaha cards only do 16ch plus the built in Dugan and two additional slots is huge for me. Sorry I forget that our worlds, while similar, are still very different

Oh and sorry for derailing the thread.

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[Marc Wielage]

I have seen some big reality-based systems where they hooked up multiple 01V96's and assigned them to multiple channels -- like for for tracks 1-16, the next for tracks 17-32, and so on. But that's not a cart-based set-up. For that, I could definitely see a big Yamaha console with a large row of faders. In truth, situations like that are pretty much "capturing" audio rather than mixing it, though you could at least use bus outs to create specific mixes for certain cameras. 

 

It's interesting to reflect that in the late 1990s, it was pretty rare that people were recording more than 2 tracks (on DAT) and maybe mixing from a wired boom and maybe 2-3 wireless mics. By the 2000s, 8-track multitrack recorders became pretty standard and the number of wireless started creeping up to 5-6-7 tracks on many jobs. It's a little scary to think that maybe 16 tracks or even 32 tracks could start to be standard on scripted shows... even beyond what Robert Altman used to do in the 1970s and 1980s.

[nickreich]

I'd be interested to know if the Pix 270 can record 64 tracks of Mono BWFs like the 970, at the same time as recording Video - or only when in Audio-Only mode like the Pix260 does. If so, can you record Audio to one drive caddy and video to the other (possibly with the external eSATA drives mirroring each of them) for production hand-off to Audio Post and Editorial respectively. 

If that's possible (now I'm stretching it...) can the Video side of things be set up to get a copy of the audio mix track as part of the video file...

I've been told this is not possible on the 260 by my local dealer in the past.

[Matt Mayer]

I'd be interested to know if the Pix 270 can record 64 tracks of Mono BWFs like the 970, at the same time as recording Video - or only when in Audio-Only mode like the Pix260 does. If so, can you record Audio to one drive caddy and video to the other (possibly with the external eSATA drives mirroring each of them) for production hand-off to Audio Post and Editorial respectively. 

If that's possible (now I'm stretching it...) can the Video side of things be set up to get a copy of the audio mix track as part of the video file...

I've been told this is not possible on the 260 by my local dealer in the past.

 

If you are recording video, all the audio is recorded in the video file--no possibility for separate BWFs.

[BudRaymond]

If only Sound Devices would build a control surface for it...

[Jeff Wexler]

If only Sound Devices would build a control surface for it...

They will, in time. Any "control surface" for that recorder will have to be more than just control, it will have to have mic preamps and other features and functions that people now have with standalone mixers like the Yamaha.

[Ramsay]

If Sonosax and Sound Devices worked together, it would be a killer combination of superb quality mix surfaces and excellent recorders....Maybe an offshoot of both companies Sono-Devices. Specifically targeting cart based mixers/recorders.

[Bartek]

This is a great new product, unfortunately it's potential will not be fully utilized unless there is a "mixer" that can support this device. All those of us who refuse to adopt the jumboloid Yamaha style mixers are screaming out for a SD controll surface.

It's like buying a LAMBORGINI without a steering wheel.

[nickreich]

A control surface would only work if the internal hardware or firmware processing potential supports mixing. I see no evidence that it does - even the headphone monitoring appears to involve switching between pairs of channels. These devices have been built as straightforward multi-track decks aimed at a part of the wider industry who need larger track counts. While it's very attractive as a cart recorder, it would be wrong to think of it as a larger 788. For people doing large scale reality shows, or people like philper and myself who record concerts / theatre / events - this would usually be hanging off a much larger console than an 01v96. In my case - more likely a DiGiCo SD10 or SD7. Try fitting that on a cart! Of course the thing that's so attractive about it's small size is that I can just as readily hang it off my 01v96 for 'smaller' jobs up to 32 channels - or even a little mini Solice - without lugging a huge rig around.

[Marc Wielage]

While it's very attractive as a cart recorder, it would be wrong to think of it as a larger 788. For people doing large scale reality shows, or people like philper and myself who record concerts / theatre / events - this would usually be hanging off a much larger console than an 01v96. In my case - more likely a DiGiCo SD10 or SD7. 

 

That's absolutely right. I saw no easy way to "mix" on the 970 at all -- it's basically just a capture device, albeit one with a lot of metadata and i/o features. One of the more modest Digi Venues could work, but it's still awfully big for a cart. It'd work fine for a huge cart or an FOH mix position.

[Mark LeBlanc]

You could pair it with a Cooper 208 digital out which I believe is AES. You can use the PSC Solice to the Analog input, sadly the 970 AD convert tops out at 114db headroom not 120+ Like the 788. From any analog mixer you could park a Focurite Red-1 (8 channel) or Red-2 (16 Channel) AD converter with Dante outputs. Converters goto 120db.

The main question should be how much would you be willing to pay for a proper DC powered mixer to sit in front of this? If the CL-9 was 2k and was only a control surface. Would you be willing to pay 8-9k for a mixer to do the job? Most of the Yamaha 01 appeal is its cheap and available. The 01 does no eliciate the same sonic passion as Cooper or Sonosax owners proclaim, but are you willing to drop some serious cash on a proper purpose built mixer?

[BAB414]

A control surface would only work if the internal hardware or firmware processing potential supports mixing. I see no evidence that it does - even the headphone monitoring appears to involve switching between pairs of channels. These devices have been built as straightforward multi-track decks aimed at a part of the wider industry who need larger track counts. While it's very attractive as a cart recorder, it would be wrong to think of it as a larger 788. For people doing large scale reality shows, or people like philper and myself who record concerts / theatre / events - this would usually be hanging off a much larger console than an 01v96. In my case - more likely a DiGiCo SD10 or SD7. Try fitting that on a cart! Of course the thing that's so attractive about it's small size is that I can just as readily hang it off my 01v96 for 'smaller' jobs up to 32 channels - or even a little mini Solice - without lugging a huge rig around.

Maybe a bit of a stretch but if this machine has firmware that can somehow route inputs to tracks pre and post fade, is it not conceivable that a CL-9-like device could be designed for a mix that could be connected to the USB or controller port? Obviously we'd still be missing the preamps, but for someone who is all wireless and line level out they could just plug receivers straight into the recorder, no?

And regarding the size, SD says dimensions are (H x W x D): 3.3” x 8.6” x 10.3” and that it's half-rack 2U, so it doesn't seem like size would be an issue to me.

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[studiomprd]

marc: " though I have to say, the 01V96 comes close, "

the Soundcraft Si Expression ...

" it's basically just a capture device, " aka: recorder

 

Bud: " If only... "

probably before pigs fly...

a front end mixer (not just a UI) that could be used with, or without the 970 recorder is appropriate; there are already options available...

they start at 442, (and many others), through Cooper's and Solice (and many others) up to major Struders (and many others!)

 

Ramsey: " If Sonosax and Sound Devices worked together "

and pigs fly...

 

LeBlanc: " The main question should be how much would you be willing to pay for a proper DC powered mixer to sit in front of this?... are you willing to drop some serious cash on a proper purpose built mixer? "

If so, then PSC Solices would be flying off the shelves in flocks... but they are not, which doesn't stimulate other companies to make competing products. 

one more time: we are a small specialty niche market.

 

-- sent from one of my computing devices, using a web browsing program

  can you tell which ones ?