Mirror Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 8, 2014 Report Share Posted April 8, 2014 The fat lady done sung to the sleeping dog sailing off in the rubber dingy while miked with a wireless that costs exactly what it should, plus the fat VAT and a set of recapable tires on which YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 With a little overview, I think we should be happy with all the wireless products offered today at all their price points, as they are so much better than what has come before. What Crew said. Be glad the glass is half-full. I feel like there's a sense of entitlement from some filmmakers these days that look at the old $100,000 cameras and today's new $5000 cameras and then say, "why can't everything be like this?" Because some things take craftsmanship and a massive investment in technology to make. Go over to Zeiss and ask them why a lens has to cost $10,000 instead of $995 and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryray Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Anyone interested in all of my BLOCK 26 wireless, for 80% of the current new street price? Larry if you are at the NAB stop by the booth befrore 11am Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kaltenbach Posted April 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Marc W-- I've been meaning to thank you for the all-time-classic Sound Mixer Hell. I've shown it to colleagues so many times the past two years or so to, in a light-hearted way, point out what you mention above-- that sense of entitlement that the RED had created. Paradigm shifting and disruptive technologies can create some very devoted fans who tend to eschew all sorts of prior production "norms", including budgeting-- and this can come off looking like entitlement. But can you blame them? They're "creative" types that shatter norms-- many of them are the people that dream up the projects that keep us busy. I am resentful when providing quotes to these types, having to explain why 8 wireless mics cost X to rent from me. However, I do feel lucky for every call I get-- many of my clients new and old are finding ways to either eliminate me entirely or seek discounts. The concept of ever raising my rate again to keep pace with inflation? Out of the question-- those days are over. Anyone here unaffected by technologies' budgetary impact should consider themselves fortunate -- lest they come off looking entitled, including manufacturers and retailers. Many of us pre-paradigm-shift-old-schoolers are getting squeezed, and we don't function in a vacuum. Thankfully, many of the "new paradigm" shoots I work on are actually enjoyable projects. If I had to work the same way for the past 25 years... ugh... Out with the stuffy old ways-- but, please, no more budget cutting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 This Europe pricing thing is pretty interesting. In Iceland the Lectro HM plugin transmitter costs $1386 (with dealer discount), when you add the VAT on top of that it becomes $1740. AKA. Really expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 This Europe pricing thing is pretty interesting. In Iceland the Lectro HM plugin transmitter costs $1386 (with dealer discount), when you add the VAT on top of that it becomes $1740. AKA. Really expensive. as mentioned many times: VAT is not part of the price. Only consumers have to pay VAT. All others can (and most actually have to) get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Many of the reasons why wireless are as expensive as they are, are very good and understandable. What is still interesting though (and was what the OP was getting at, I thought) is why there wasn't a manufacturer in the wireless market like Sound Devices in the recorder market. Before the 744T and more to the the point, the 788T, really good location recorders were about twice as expensive as the 788T. The 788 is by many considered a very good machine, perfectly suitable for movies, TV and docs. All the points above re: R&D, caftsmanship, many parts, servicing, and so on, apply to the 788 as much as to the expensive wireless. By the way, this may apply to the Fusion as well, I'm not sure. But it remains interesting, why there isn't a wireless maker, that's half as expensive, but almost as good as the expensive Lectro/Zax/Sennheiser stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 The good news is, after a few more years of the nanny state expanding in the US, prices will be equalized. Larry! include us too in India my dear friend! -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Kaltenbach Posted April 10, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Interesting you mention Sound Devices' 788t scenario, Constantin. In my mulling this question over I wondered why SD hasn't moved into wireless products. They certainly entered the video recording arena with great success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 But it remains interesting, why there isn't a wireless maker, that's half as expensive, but almost as good as the expensive Lectro/Zax/Sennheiser stuff I am sure the Chinese are working on it LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Interesting you mention Sound Devices' 788t scenario, Constantin. In my mulling this question over I wondered why SD hasn't moved into wireless products. They certainly entered the video recording arena with great success. I think its OK for companies like SD to stick to JUST mixers/recorders. Thats what they do well.. Zax is a whole different animal, but for the most part they have always been multifaceted in that way.. For SD to get into the wireless arena would be like Lectro getting into mixers and recorders...It just doesn't seem to be their thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 I am sure the Chinese are working on it LOL... didn't realize SD was a chinese company... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 didn't realize SD was a chinese company... They aren't..thats the joke. There is a chinese company out there that had been distributing products pretty much identical to SD for a few years. I saw a mix-pre and something else, but its been a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 They aren't..thats the joke. . I know they aren't. Anyway, SD can do it, and... who else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Futterman Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 You also own a Shanghai Distro 788? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 as mentioned many times: VAT is not part of the price. Only consumers have to pay VAT. All others can (and most actually have to) get it back. If the customer has to pay it, it becomes part of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If the customer has to pay it, it becomes part of the price. It's like a deposit, which you get back (when you do your accounting, at the end of the month or quarter). At least, that's how it works in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebben Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If the customer has to pay it, it becomes part of the price. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 If the customer has to pay it, it becomes part of the price.No, Vincent is right. The consumer customer has to pay it, but the business customer does not, or rather they get it back. The VAT is a consumer tax, and for all those who buy something to sell on or if they need it for their business (if they are registered) they can reclaim it. There are a few Ifs and Buts, but that is the gist of it. Anyone of us, who are doing sound recording do not have to pay VAT in the end. So it should never be considered part of the price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Not, Vincent is right. The consumer customer has to pay it, but the business customer does not, or rather they get it back. The VAT is a consumer tax, and for all those who buy something to sell on or if they need it for their business (if they are registered) they can reclaim it. There are a few Ifs and Buts, but that is the gist of it. Anyone of us, who are doing sound recording do not have to pay VAT in the end. So it should never be considered part of the price Only partially correct Constantin. Because of the high threshold of compulsory registration most jobbing sound recordist's in the UK are not registered. A few might voluntarily register but this is a small number so the majority have to count the Vat as part of the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 10, 2014 Report Share Posted April 10, 2014 Only partially correct Constantin. Because of the high threshold of compulsory registration most jobbing sound recordist's in the UK are not registered. A few might voluntarily register but this is a small number so the majority have to count the Vat as part of the price.although doing it voluntarily is a good option. OK, you're right. the threshold of compulsory registration was one of my Ifs. How high is the threshold in the UK? In Germany it's €17500, which I think is low enough for someone to pass who works at least 30-40 days a year, maybe more depending on the production. Why aren't more registering voluntarily, though? I don't really know any downsides (other than s bit more paperwork) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 I am sure the Chinese are working on it LOL... It's to Larry Fisher's and Glenn Sanders' credit that their products are still made in America and they do employ Americans to design, build, and assemble their products. True, you might be able to offshore the whole thing and make them cheaper, but I suspect there would be a considerable shift in quality and reliability if that were to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 +LOTS for keeping manufacturing jobs local. If the Chinese could borrow the technology then they would and pump out the knock offs to anyone foolish enough to buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted April 11, 2014 Report Share Posted April 11, 2014 although doing it voluntarily is a good option. OK, you're right. the threshold of compulsory registration was one of my Ifs. How high is the threshold in the UK? In Germany it's €17500, which I think is low enough for someone to pass who works at least 30-40 days a year, maybe more depending on the production. Why aren't more registering voluntarily, though? I don't really know any downsides (other than s bit more paperwork) The Vat threshold for compulsory registration is a staggering 81,000 yes 81K UK pounds. I can never understand why people don't register voluntarily as they can claim all the vat paid on fuel and equipment in fact anything to do with the business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.