Why do we always lose the blame game?

[hornbuckle]

So it's a pretty common call/email from someone in production that there is a problem with noise/sync/track count/coverage/whatever and the finger is ALWAYS pointed at the production sound mixer.

 

I always stand my ground, listen to tracks etc. and it's amazing how often it's actually an asst editor who has unchecked/checked some button or whatever.

 

The reason I'm asking is that I had an email from a client who said that the tracks I supplied on a jobwere 'unusable'. Long story short I did a rough mix the 'unusable' tracks from an OMF and it sounded great  (I'm a locations guy but record mix music as a 'hobby'). 2 locations 1 next to a highway and a cafe with old noisy fridges that couldn't be turned off.. (you know, the usual)

 

RH

[Marc Wielage]

When I wear my post hat, if there's a sound sync problem and somebody grumbles that "the sound is screwed up," I've always been quick to correct them and say, "it may be that the picture is out of sync with the sound -- not vice-versa." And when I've worn my location sound hat and gotten a call like that from the editor, I always ask, "was the sound timecode in sync with the slate?" And of course it always is, which pretty much guarantees the camera is off -- not the sound department.

 

In the case of noise from a highway or in a cafe, my usual response is, "this isn't a sound problem -- it's a location problem." Subtle distinction, but they gotta understand we record the environment and can only do so much with bad choices on the part of production.

[Geoff Tirrell]

I have faced the issue of trying to track down a sync issue after the fact where you have 2 cameras a slate and a recorder.  Usually I take the same tact as Marc but for the life of me can't figure out why simple troubleshooting on something like this is not fought to more people in school.  

 

For anybody reading this its not hard if the two cameras and slate match than the recorder is off.  If the recorder slate and 1 camera match than the other is off.  If nothing matches than some people need to get their ears twisted.

[taylormadeaudio]

RH,

The answer to your question is in the title to this thread.

You can't lose a game you don't play.

Don't take the bait -- stay calm, cool, collected -- in control... and politely explain (as Mark so aptly exemplified,) that it is not a Sound problem.

As the PSM, you have a responsibility to get the best sound possible - given whatever parameters under which you're challenged to do so. That last part is key.

If you have in fact gotten the best sound possible given those parameters, then you've done your job, and anyone who has a problem with that might just have some (Senator) "unrealistic expectations".

With experience comes confidence - you'll still be expected to perform miracles, you'll just just be better equipped to deliver... and when you don't perform a miracle, you'll rest assured that you did as well as could be expected, and don't sweat it.

BTW, the term "unusable" is extremely subjective:

I suspect the tracks in question could be used in a number of ways, including but not limited to:

1) a guide track for looping

2) a lesson for film students about the importance of choosing good locations

3) a gag reel

~tt

[studiomprd]

horn:  " Why do we always lose the blame game? "

who says we always lose ?  and why play it ??

 

" I always stand my ground,...I had an email from a client who said that the tracks I supplied on a jobwere 'unusable'....and it sounded great... 2 locations 1 next to a highway and a cafe with old noisy fridges that couldn't be turned off.. (you know, the usual) "

WOW...

you say it sounded great, even with the highway and fridges..?  and they say it sucked...??  hmmm...I'm guessing the truth lies somewhere in-between...not knowing who you really are is an issue in this case and we also do not know much about the project, but just based on what little we know, they could well be right, and that could be because of the productions unreasonable expectations...

 

edit: I note Taylor posted while I was typing!

Edited May 8, 2014 by studiomprd

[jrd456]

Why couldn't the fridges be turned off ? They were on breakers ?

 

                              J.D.

[Joshua Anderson]

Why couldn't the fridges be turned off ? They were on breakers ?

J.D.

I've had restaurant owners who voice concern about damaging a refrigerator if turning it off with the breaker.

I've also been in restaurants that were old enough that no one can find the correct breaker box in the midst of all of the old wiring.

[studiomprd]

JA: " damaging a refrigerator if turning it off with the breaker. "

what about a power failure..?

[Joshua Anderson]

JA: " damaging a refrigerator if turning it off with the breaker. "

what about a power failure..?

You're preaching to the choir. All part of the negotiations we're privy to when the locations department hasn't locked down all of the noise makers.

[stevegrider]

The last time I had a post production facility make the claim that my tracks were unusable, they had opened my polyphonic 788 files with a program along the lines of iTunes. They were convinced I had jammed six lavs and a boom to mono and doubled it on two tracks, leaving every mic open all the time. The scene was a reality show cocktail party so you could imagine the cacophony they heard. They soon took the files to a proper audio facility, who verified all was well, saving me from a stress-induced aneurysm.

[dfisk]

I did a lot of trouble shooting for this type of issue a LOT when I worked at Coffey Sound. 99.9999999% of the time the sync issue had nothing to do with the production sound mixer....and one the very few occasions that the production sound mixer did make a timecode mistake, I usually got a call before the sound was even turned in because sound mixers are smart enough to catch these issues before they became a problem for post so we could fix the files before they were delivered. 

[Jay Rose]

I've had an assistant producer swear over the phone that a TV mix was no good, and she wouldn't even forward it to her boss until I remixed.

 

I asked what she was listening on, figuring she'd say earbuds or Fostex 'really professional XLR-equipped monitor'...

 

she said "iTunes". 

 

I told her how to find the preferences panel in iTunes, where to find "Sound Enhancer" (compress / eq / reverb) and "Sound Check" (AGC) buttons, and to see if they were turned on. She said "yes, our company's computer guy said they should be on all the time."

 

I told her what they did, and to try - just once - listening to my mix with them off. 

 

She bought the mix.

[old school]

It all boils down to no one knowing what we do in the 1st place, so any sound issue must be our fault.

 

   I'm sure we all could go on for days with the phone calls we have received from production. My personal favorite was a frantic call from a successful commercial producer here in LA. I was in Montreal on a gig but the day before I left I did a job for her in Palm Springs. She was saying they couldn't sync the sound! What was wrong with my sound? So I asked her a few questions as I tried to get to the bottom of it. This is back in the DAT days and film cameras. After a few basic questions it turns out the issue was the Cameraman who was the Director didnt frame up or roll the camera on the majority of the slates. A sound problem? Yeah right.

CrewC

[John Steigerwald]

Because a lot of us are wearing a rig most of the time, we can't get up as quickly when thrown under the bus.

[engaudio]

Beat this.

Had a director call me stating he couldn't hear audio in the edit, where was it?

After a few questions it turned out he could hear it when playing back from the camera , but not after importing it to his edit program. (they wanted single system sound, C300)

I told him to call me back after he'd checked his settings on the computer..

This wasn't a newbie director either and It was a promo shoot for Cannon! 

 

Grant.

[Scott Smith]

Have to say, this is one area where digital technology has really done us a dis-favor. So many ways to screw up a track after the fact, without having any knowledge of what is actually going on.

 

Back in the day, all I had to do was thread up the 1/4" original and play it on a halfway decent sound system. The conversation usually ended there.

 

Now, almost no one has a decent sound system, and are clueless about what is going on with various settings buried deep in some sub-menu.

 

--S

[hobosoundguy]

Try this one on for size:

Built a record system for a show that couldn't fit sound guys on a boat:

Not surprisingly not every line was perfect, for season 2 this was emailed to me:

"Blown out and too quiet audio: sometimes our production crew is going to need to twiddle the knobs - but some of the crew have mentioned that if they could just play a tone set to the -20db across all mics and look at the wave forms in a mixer that they could easily tell if their mics are set too high or too low and adjust accordingly. Is that something our camera crews can be trained to do so they can set the levels correctly?

Here's some more of their suggestions:

The c-300's we're going out of sync with the 664 so

- Use a sync generator with the audio recording boxes. We had a lot of sync drift and post feels this could save weeks of work and a lot of money.

And

- sometimes when the guys got in the small skiff boat and motored off in a different direction or got on another boat they would go out of range.

From post:

- Using a Box Transmitter Booster with the audio boxes. We had signal issues on one of the larger boats plus it was often hard to hear audio on the skiff boat.

I rofl-ed...

[Rob Lewis]

The uneducated ha e no one to blame but themselves.

[stevegrider]

The piece of equipment they are missing is the two leg, two eared walking talking sound mixer. These can be had for a decent day rate and will virtually guarantee excellent results.

Try this one on for size:

Built a record system for a show that couldn't fit sound guys on a boat:

Not surprisingly not every line was perfect, for season 2 this was emailed to me:

"Blown out and too quiet audio: sometimes our production crew is going to need to twiddle the knobs - but some of the crew have mentioned that if they could just play a tone set to the -20db across all mics and look at the wave forms in a mixer that they could easily tell if their mics are set too high or too low and adjust accordingly. Is that something our camera crews can be trained to do so they can set the levels correctly?

Here's some more of their suggestions:

The c-300's we're going out of sync with the 664 so

- Use a sync generator with the audio recording boxes. We had a lot of sync drift and post feels this could save weeks of work and a lot of money.

And

- sometimes when the guys got in the small skiff boat and motored off in a different direction or got on another boat they would go out of range.

From post:

- Using a Box Transmitter Booster with the audio boxes. We had signal issues on one of the larger boats plus it was often hard to hear audio on the skiff boat.

I rofl-ed...

[Derek H]

Just a few weeks back I got a panicked, bordering on angry, voicemail stating that most of the day's sound was missing and would I please contact their editor and deal with it. Now I'm nervous! I call the editor and explain that it could be he's only looking at the recordings that were pulled before lunch.

15 minutes later I get a call back and they found everything...

[studiomprd]

hobo: " this was emailed to me: "

unreasonable expectations.

 

steve: " will virtually guarantee excellent results. "

maybe...

maybe not: see above

[dolo72]

Beat this.

Had a director call me stating he couldn't hear audio in the edit, where was it?

After a few questions it turned out he could hear it when playing back from the camera , but not after importing it to his edit program. (they wanted single system sound, C300)

I told him to call me back after he'd checked his settings on the computer..

This wasn't a newbie director either and It was a promo shoot for Cannon!

Grant.

[dolo72]

I had exactly the same except the 'editor' started to lecture me about how to record sound and it was a job for google. I said I would call them back. 1 minute later I used google to show the director the 'editor' did not know how to import files ? Now the editor can't make eye contact with me for some reason.

Lisala

[Nathaniel Robinson]

Just finished a 5 day shoot with an out-of-town crew. 2 C300s, one with a SB3 and the other jammed before any OTF interview. They wouldn't pay for a second TC box or TC slate. As I'm prepping my gear to start Day 3 the DIT/assistant editor tells me that I'm "not jamming the cameras correctly and nothing is in sync". After a few seconds of poking around in Avid, we find that the problem is their nested autosequences, and nothing to do with camera TC. She (barely) apologized, but I think if it had been discovered after leaving town, she would've just thrown me under the bus, potentially ruining my reputation with a new client. So frustrating!

[RPSharman]

Just a few weeks back I got a panicked, bordering on angry, voicemail stating that most of the day's sound was missing and would I please contact their editor and deal with it. Now I'm nervous! I call the editor and explain that it could be he's only looking at the recordings that were pulled before lunch.

15 minutes later I get a call back and they found everything...

You got a call back? I get the call that sync was off, or levels were too low, or something was missing, etc. I gently have the discussions as posted above. I hardly ever get a call or email back.

The last movie I did, the dailies report often had camera and sound "issues" on the report. I called the dailies coordinator and explained that the emails go to every listed producer, most of whom know very little about this stuff. They need to choose their words more carefully, and don't list "problems" when they're not really a problem and the "issue" is resolved.

They actually listened.