Frogpole Posted June 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2014 Jez, I'm using a little blue box I got at Guitar Center about a hundred years ago. It is a cable tester and tone generator. Tone is line level +4, -10, and -50db. I sometimes use a pad on the -10db to get it down to -35 or -40. But the -50db is usually good for most stuff. It is powered by two AA Batteries. And the best thing about it is that it will test cable continuity. There are other boxes out there similar to this unit, so, I don't know if this is the best one now. Here is a link to B&H for the unit. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=181570&gclid=CNbC4ajf7b4CFSQaOgodNTUAIw&Q=&is=REG&A=details If you google "Ebtech Swiss Army", there are a more choices. Ciao, Sully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Haven't had the chance to audition the box yet, but size-wise, it weighs 11.2 oz./315 grams. 1.25" thick, 5.25" wide including switches and connectors and 4.5" deep including knobs. Sully's cables for the box weigh about 9 oz./225 grams just for comparison. I've worked with Sully for over 30 years and I trust his judgment implicitly, especially regarding quality results from a compact recording rig. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 Jez, I'm using a little blue box I got at Guitar Center about a hundred years ago. It is a cable tester and tone generator. Tone is line level +4, -10, and -50db. I sometimes use a pad on the -10db to get it down to -35 or -40. But the -50db is usually good for most stuff. It is powered by two AA Batteries. And the best thing about it is that it will test cable continuity. There are other boxes out there similar to this unit, so, I don't know if this is the best one now. Here is a link to B&H for the unit. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=181570&gclid=CNbC4ajf7b4CFSQaOgodNTUAIw&Q=&is=REG&A=details If you google "Ebtech Swiss Army", there are a more choices. Ciao, Sully Thanks Sully - interesting, especially the multi-level settings for tone out. The BH page also offered alternatives which I'll have a look through. FWIW, my solution so far has been having a few tones recorded at 'mic' levels (-20, -30, -35, -40, etc) on a CF card to play out of a microtrack or similar. Obviously one needs to know the level structure of everything around the tones, but when simply matching gain across inputs is the goal without any need for calibration it does the trick. (Now how about manufacturers building comprehensive gain matching into their recorders, hmm?) I'll check this one out and a few others meanwhile so thanks for the link again (and for the writeups everyone on the VCP) Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted June 10, 2014 Report Share Posted June 10, 2014 FWIW, my solution so far has been having a few tones recorded at 'mic' levels (-20, -30, -35, -40, etc) on a CF card to play out of a microtrack or similar. Forgot to mention another factor I thought of afterwards but haven't done yet. The different levels in tone are recorded at different frequencies (corresponding to say C G D A E being a viola player ...) to make it obvious which you're dealing with without looking. (And having the sequence of tones descend in volume hopefully prevents accidental ear abrasion). Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngooch Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 Forgot to mention another factor I thought of afterwards but haven't done yet. The different levels in tone are recorded at different frequencies (corresponding to say C G D A E being a viola player ...) to make it obvious which you're dealing with without looking. (And having the sequence of tones descend in volume hopefully prevents accidental ear abrasion). Jez The concept of using multiple tone generators of differing pitches to quickly determine signal routing has intrigued me. If i could confirm proper signal path by sequentially auditioning my inputs and were listening for ascending or descending tones to confirm the routing,that would be a real time saver. Multiple tone outputs of venue or mic pres at different frequencies--- This could be handy... pie in the sky idea..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted June 11, 2014 Report Share Posted June 11, 2014 The concept of using multiple tone generators of differing pitches to quickly determine signal routing has intrigued me. If i could confirm proper signal path by sequentially auditioning my inputs and were listening for ascending or descending tones to confirm the routing,that would be a real time saver. Multiple tone outputs of venue or mic pres at different frequencies--- This could be handy... pie in the sky idea..... Hi John, As you know I'm in the post production world and so ident tone variants are nothing new to me. From the old simple EBU then BBC LR tone with one intermittant channel (2 alternating for BBC GLITS = Graham's Line up Tone Ident System after Graham Haines who developed it from the EBU standard) there are now I think several systems about, some custom designed, for various setups. When Martin Black and Keith Lane at Sky set up their 5.1 surround workflow ten years ago they came up with their own, BLITS: they too based their tones on the musical 440Hz = A and readily identified musically related differences to it. The tones are; L and R 440Hz C 1320Hz LFE 82.5Hz Ls Rs 660Hz (followed by sequences at 1kHz and 2kHz, and their tone system addresses not only 5.1 but identifies it as such within a 2 channel stereo folddown). This is one example that had a very thorough write up in Line Up (Journal of the Institute of Broadcast Sound) back in Feb/March 2007. Of course the problem then becomes so many fingers, so many pies, accepted solutions drafted onto new problems and confusion abounds! Best, Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngooch Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Jez, here is the direct link the article. http://www.ips.org.uk/files/03_BLITS_Surround_Sound_Ident.pdf I am still wrapping my mind around how it all works, but very interesting. j Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Jez, here is the direct link the article. http://www.ips.org.uk/files/03_BLITS_Surround_Sound_Ident.pdf I am still wrapping my mind around how it all works, but very interesting. j Thanks John, another online resource (I'm a "take a magazine into the 'small study'" kind of guy by choice) ... having flicked through 10 or so years of fascinating IPS articles there I just came across this - another tone/signal check box from 1991 (thus no idea if still available) which allows attenuation of 1kHz or 10kHz tones at 10dB steps: http://www.ips.org.uk/files/10_Gadgets_And_Gizmos_91.pdf Sorry for hijacking the original thread ... but I suppose this is 'on-off topic' ? Jez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngooch Posted June 12, 2014 Report Share Posted June 12, 2014 Oh yes page hijack. I'll bring it back... I am very interested in the vorverstarker vcl-m3. I look forward to hearing reviews.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldmixer Posted June 13, 2014 Report Share Posted June 13, 2014 What did it end up costing shipping included FP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerascal Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Hi, did abybody use those? http://www.audioroot.fr/product/femto/ http://stores.ebay.com/audioroot/Microphone-preamplifiers-/_i.html?_fsub=6537712015 or http://www.audioroot.fr/product/upre-mkii/ Looks good and tiny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerascal Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I ask to audioroot support and the femto has gain to +10db to +70dB, +10DB is the minimal gain so that means that we can't cut totally sound on it! The price is 495 euros exVAT uPRE Mk2 has ranger to-50dB to +80dB so it can be use as fader and cut totally sound, but the price is 795 euros exVAT but has AES output. So VCP-M2 from Kortwich has better price 400 euros incVAT . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 I ask to audioroot support and the femto has gain to +10db to +70dB, +10DB is the minimal gain so that means that we can't cut totally sound on it! The price is 495 euros exVAT uPRE Mk2 has ranger to-50dB to +80dB so it can be use as fader and cut totally sound, but the price is 795 euros exVAT but has AES output. So VCP-M2 from Kortwich has better price 400 euros incVAT . Just cut it on the recorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerascal Posted June 20, 2014 Report Share Posted June 20, 2014 Just cut it on the recorder lol but not for the purpose to use it for input 5&6 (on virtual faders) on Maxx in ENG or doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 uPRE Mk2 has ranger to-50dB to +80dB so it can be use as fader and cut totally sound, but the price is 795 euros exVAT but has AES output. the AES version would be of limited appeal to me because because i'd loose two mic input on the recorder for the 2 input on the extra unit. So VCP-M2 from Kortwich has better price 400 euros incVAT . hmm, isn't it listed as 490EUR + VAT? personally i'd probably still prefer a MixPre to both other units, slightly heavier and more expensive, but much more flexible. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerascal Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 hmm, isn't it listed as 490EUR + VAT? Yep sorry it's 490 euros net. And indeed "net" seems to mean exVAT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerascal Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was hoping that VCP-M2 had better preamp than Mixpre... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I was hoping that VCP-M2 had better preamp than Mixpre... i was under the impression that the MixPre was considered as having very good preamps (and limiters and low cut filters) - have you had different experiences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerascal Posted June 21, 2014 Report Share Posted June 21, 2014 I had a sd 302 and was boring by the hiss when you need to push the gain to about 3 hour. I'm guessing Mixpre are the same pres... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myriam Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 any one have any feedback on Audioroot? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audioroot-FEMTO-Portable-battery-powered-stereo-microphone-preamp-/221288042046 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 24, 2014 Report Share Posted June 24, 2014 rascal: " I'm guessing Mixpre are the same pres... " why are you guessing ? and why would you expect Kortwich to make better mic-pre's than SD.. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I had a sd 302 and was boring by the hiss when you need to push the gain to about 3 hour. I'm guessing Mixpre are the same pres... got curious and borrowed a MicPre-D, a 302 and a 702 and compared it to a 633... hooked up a MKH8050, pushed the gain up to 3 o'clock, matched them all with some white noise and played some faint music... i don't have the keenest ears and it probably wasn't the most scientific setup, but i couldnt really hear any difference in self noise. if anyone is interested in listening with better trained ears send me a PM and i see that i can upload the files. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Gilchrist Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 I finally got a chance to have a listen to Sully's VCP-M3. I did the listening via my 664, since Sully's 633 is set up for a little different rig, a Sonosax M2 preamp on inputs 4 & 5 and a blooplight on input 6. I didn't want to mess with the base setup of his 633. The unit sounds pretty good and while it's not superior to the Sound Devices native preamps, it's certainly not a lot worse. Setup is very fiddily, balancing the software trim and fader settings on the 664 was a little time consuming. I don't know that I'd use one of these as an everyday solution for the line level inputs on the 633 or 664 but it's a sonically acceptable one. Sorry for the subjective nature of my assessment, it is what it is. Also, not a fast, hook-it-up-and-go device. It will take time to set up for the best results. My biggest complaints are ergonomic. The input and output connectors are set up differently on the VCP-M3 than on the Sound Devices units it could be used with. On the SD products, the input one connector is the furthest from the front panel and on the Kortwich unit, both input and output connectors are closest to the front panel. The connectors on the Kortwich are also oriented keyway up, as opposed to keyway down on the SD 633 and 664. Sully had the unit in for a cursory look and listen on the bench at Vark Audio and I recall the biggest issue discovered was current draw. If you have a 633 as your daily driver, I'd consider the VCP-M3 a good addition for those times you want the additional preamps. I took a listen through my 744T as well and the 2 pot version (VCP-M2) might be worth a look for the SD 744T. Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Jim: " a good addition for those times you wand the additional preamps... " ... but if you regularly need additional preamps, maybe you need a bigger unit than the 633...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogpole Posted June 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Thanks Jim, for wringing out the M3. I agree with everything you wrote. Ironically, I will be using the M3 on my Nomand 12 to fill up Ch. 7,8,9, with mike preamps. I'll just leave it rigged with the Nomad, so, I won't have to fiddle with it every time I need it. The SD 633 set-up with the Sonosax M2 and bloop slate are working well for most small jobs. So, leaving the VCP-M3 with the Nomad for larger music venues will be just fine. I got a note from Pro Sound, NYC about pricing.....$750 for VCP-M3 with a two week lead time to order from Kortwich. Ciao, Sully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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