AlisonGrayson Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Hey all! I've been working on an Arena football reality show, and we've been putting some of my wirelesses on players during the game. The SMQVs are pretty snug in padding and gaff taped to hell, so they're holding up like champs, but as you can imagine, my lav mics are getting destroyed. The mic head is pretty tucked away inside of padding, but they're still taking on a decent brunt of impact. I've been using my B6s because they're fairly sweat proof, but between the impact and the yelling (my SMQVs' sensitivities are set to 1.5 during the games and the players still occasionally peak in unit), the diaphragms are taking a beating. I was thinking of picking up some Oscar Sound tech TL-40s because of their price point, but I was wondering if anyone could suggest some rugged mics that might hold up better in this situation. I've been shying away from my tram mics in this situation because my experience with them is that they tend to sweat out pretty quickly. Thanks! Quote
studiomprd Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) there are, of course, many options, and they are frequently discussed here, including DPA's recently introduced rugged lav. adding to this post: I personally consider lav mic's pretty much an expendable (yes, even at DPA prices!), as they are, by design, subject to a lot of wear and tear (dare I say abuse?), and thus need to be periodically updated, sometimes by production L&D... now, as to moisture issues in use (first dealt with that in the early 80's with my Vega 66/77 systems using Sony ECM-30's on "Body's in Motion" show) there are currently a number of moisture resistant lav's available, and my ever growing collection includes a number of them from several manufacturers; all previously discussed, and working pretty darn well. Edited June 10, 2014 by studiomprd Quote
berniebeaudry Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Wouldn't go with the TL40s as they don't take as high a sound pressure level. Not sure how they respond to getting damp, probably about the same as the B6s. Maybe get the low sensitivity B6s? Sennheiser MKE 2 might be another thought. They use those in theater a lot too. Quote
Nick Ray Harris Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=128&item=24743 Quote
JonG Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 +1 for sennheiser mke-2 They're re enforced and sound great. Quote
RScottATL Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Get it as good as you can, and then just treat them as expendables and trash them when they get destroyed. Price of admission, IMO. Production should be fully on board with this. Quote
Philip Perkins Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I use B6s all the time but feel like they would be a little fragile for what you are doing. How about B3? philp Quote
taylormadeaudio Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 Look at the Countryman EMW's ~tt Quote
JonO Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I mic'd football players for a doc and found that sanken cos-11's in RM11's worked fantastic. I only lost one mic during the season. The Sankens are much more durable than the b6's and I found that the unpadded b6's couldn't handle the spl's anyway. That being said, this was for high school football and pro athletes hit each other much harder. But I would try the Sankens in a COS11 for extra protection. Jon Quote
JonO Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I mic'd football players for a doc and found that sanken cos-11's in RM11's worked fantastic. I only lost one mic during the season. The Sankens are much more durable than the b6's and I found that the unpadded b6's couldn't handle the spl's anyway. That being said, this was for high school football and pro athletes hit each other much harder. But I would try the Sankens in a COS11 for extra protection. Jon Quote
tombackus Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 There is a company called Quantum5x that makes wireless systems for just this purpose. They make a small compact transmitter for sports that is waterproofed and rugged enough. Just search the net for Quantum5x. Quote
Rick Reineke Posted June 10, 2014 Report Posted June 10, 2014 I recall the Quantum5x gear is exclusively used by the NBA teams with specific pouches and mounting procedures. There was discussion about this specific usage a few months back. NFL films may also be worthwhile to looking into. I recall they use the Lectro SM transmitters placed in the shoulder pads w/ the mic in the helmet. I don't recall which mic they used though. Quote
AlisonGrayson Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Posted June 11, 2014 Thanks, all! Fortunately production is understanding that yes, the mics are expendables, and since they're micing players during games, they will indeed expend quicker than usual. But I have a feeling that if we keep losing mics at our current rate, that situation might change... I'm surprised to hear that the sanken cos-11s held up so well in a similar situation, as I've always considered them a pretty delicate mic. The show's primary mixer uses DPAs on the coaches and loves em, so it's nice to hear more people vouching for the brand and their prices. I've also been unrealistically biased against Sennheiser mics because of how horrendous the me2s sound, but perhaps I should get over that and give their higher end models a listen.... Off to do some more sound homework! Quote
dominiquegreffard Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 NFL films may also be worthwhile to looking into. I recall they use the Lectro SM transmitters placed in the shoulder pads w/ the mic in the helmet. I don't recall which mic they used though. I wonder how they run the cable from the shoulder to the helmet? Quote
JonO Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 They don't place the lav's in the helmets. Players take their helmets off when they go to the sidelines. I placed the lav head between the hard shell and soft padding. This worked for the type of pads that the team used. There are other, newer types of pads that have the shell and padding fixed as one piece and those are much harder to find a place to safely hide the mic. Quote
AlisonGrayson Posted June 11, 2014 Author Report Posted June 11, 2014 They don't place the lav's in the helmets. Players take their helmets off when they go to the sidelines. I placed the lav head between the hard shell and soft padding. This worked for the type of pads that the team used. Yep, that placement is working pretty well for my boys too. Plus I'm not given enough access or time to do a helmet mic, even if they did keep it on. I've also seen several helmets roll off during a game, but I've yet to see pads roll off... Quote
dominiquegreffard Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 They don't place the lav's in the helmets. Players take their helmets off when they go to the sidelines. good point. I can t imagine a wire running out of a player's helmet. Quote
Crussell Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 +1 for sennheiser mke-2 They're re enforced and sound great. +1 more. And I also like how they sound. Steel reinforcement in the cable is very strong. I've found the umbrella diaphragm to do well with sweat too. Quote
AndyB Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 OST TL-40's buried in the pads, like the middle of the shoulder pads seems like it would be a good thing to try as a cheap expendable mic. Someone said they have issues with high spl's, but I think if you bury one under the pads around the sternum it would be fine and easily replaced if damaged. Quote
mikewest Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 I'd use Countryman B3 microphones Bigger than B6's and thicker cables You can get a red spot version too mike Quote
Jon Gilbert Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 The most durable mics I own seem to be my COS11s, they're what I'd use first in your situation. Quote
chris_bollard Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 With you Mike - the B3 is just about indestructible.. Quote
studiomprd Posted June 11, 2014 Report Posted June 11, 2014 AG: " But I have a feeling that if we keep losing mics at our current rate, that situation might change... " what changes ?? football is football... If the production isn't able to, or doesn't want to afford the "expendables", they need to change their situation. (and you might need to adjust your rental accordingly!) Quote
Jeremy Childers Posted June 12, 2014 Report Posted June 12, 2014 I have 2 blue band b6 I used on a doc in very loud conventions, they worked well..considering talent was yelling most of the time Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote
huntersnyder Posted June 12, 2014 Report Posted June 12, 2014 The most durable mics I own seem to be my COS11s, they're what I'd use first in your situation. x2, mine tested exensively in arctic marine environments without issue Quote
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