Motune Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hey everybody, on my last shoot my MKH 418S Sennheiser started to give me trouble. The 418 has its own noise anyway, but after a day on the ocean it felt like I imported the ocean to the land. The noise of the mic itself was unbearable. I will send the 418 to sennheiser to see if they can fix it. But maybe it´s time to look for alternatives. I´m mainly working on documentaries, a lot of times on remote places, with harsh conditions. I´m looking for a system, that is stable and that can be used for scenic situations, interviews and basic ambience at the same time. I know its a hard task;-) Any recommendations? Thanks Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siddho Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 i prefer these: http://pearlmicrophones.com/index.php/products/microphones-by-type/ms-stereo-quad/pearl-ms-2cl-ms-8cl-detail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Honestly I think there isn't anything more rugged than the 418S. Audio Technica BP 4029, Sanken CSS 5 come to mind as competitors. 416 with Emesser? That Pearl surely is great for backgrounds, music, etc, but I would not use it as a general all-terrain dialog mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewFreedAudio Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I have a Sanken CSS5 and it's a fantastic mic. It is more rugged than the 418 and sounds better. And if you're interested I do happen to be selling mine only because my clients haven't needed me to record stereo for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 <<<used for scenic situations, interviews and basic ambience at the same time>>>> assuming you want to use ONE mic to do all of this. so it has to be an M-S mic. it also has to have the capacity of a shotgun to isolate for specific source - interview in noisy space for example in other times it has to provide a possible stereo track of ambience/atmosphere. If i have read your requirements correctly, you could either continue with your MKH418S (after repairs) or get a Schoeps shotgun - CMIT and a M-S combo or a Sennheiser 416-MKH30 combo (probably most capable of handling humidity and other bad conditions as i have read from peoples' experiences with MKH mics) -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motune Posted July 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Thanks everybody for your responses Yes Vin, I am looking for ONE Mic or a combined system, that can be used in one windshield system. I will see what Sennheiser will say. But even before the self noise was quite present in quieter ambiences. What are your experiences with the CMIT? Sounds like a great mic. Matthew thanks for the offer. I will see if I can get a hold of a CSS5 and hear what it sounds like. I tried the Audio Technica BP 4029 but couldn´t hear a difference to the 418s regarding self noise. After the crash of the 418 I used a 416 as a backup and added for ambiences a Sennheiser MKH 60 in 90° angle. Would you say, thats even a better option for ambience then the MS? I´m not talking about an ambience for a room or location after a dialog but an ambience of an atmospheric scene Thanks Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Both Rycote and Cinela make a special windshield versions for MS. Check out the Cinela Piano 2: http://www.cinela.fr/catalog.php?pid=88 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 +1 on the Sanken CS-5. It is a little heavy on the end of the pole, but you can switch from stereo to mono in a flash. Sounds good and is pretty rugged. I don't use mine often, but I am sure glad I have this all-in-one tool in my kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 I use a MKH30 with a MKH8040 on top of it. Mounted in a customised Rode Blimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 An MKH 8030 plus an MKH 8050 would be a perfect, compact, lightweight, choice.... oh wait.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntersnyder Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Is anyone able to compare the CSS-5 to Sanken's CMS-10? I have the 416 with emesser which has produced wonderful recordings when paired with the MixpreD or 744T, though it requires a blimp, and for when mounted on a camera, it sure does increase top heaviness and camera height. I wonder if the CMS-10 could be an alternative for the MKH-418s. If I could ask, would you prefer the CMS-10 or the CSS-5 as an on camera mic, and why or why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Deakin Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 +1 for the mkh30 & 8040 combo. +111111111 for the 8030 when it comes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrider Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 The CSS-5 wouldn't work well at all on a camera because of its over and under barrel design. The CMS 10 is designed to be an on- camera mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 But even before the self noise was quite present in quieter ambiences. What are your experiences with the CMIT? Sounds like a great mic. Moritz The CMIT does sound like a great mic, and I love it dearly, but self-noise is quite apparent here as well. That was always one aspect that annoyed me with this mic. You will probably have to look at a different mic if you are concerned about self noise. I think the 418 is a good choice in your situation, and if you are considering the two mic solution, getting two MKH60 would be very good, too, or two KMR81 or two CMIT... BTW, large diaphragm condenser mics tend to be much quieter than SDCs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Regarding self noise on the CMIT ; I've used it a lot and I've never had any problems with self noise! I've recorded whispery dialog and ambiances with it. I call YMMV on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 +1 re: CMIT = quiet. If you're getting self noise with your CMIT you've got an issue needs sorting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJW Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 +1 re: CMIT = quiet. If you're getting self noise with your CMIT you've got an issue needs sorting. Agreed, if we are talking about dialogue on films but in a past life on docs I used to find myself frequently in African savannah at dawn cranking up the gain to record the waking wildlife. You become very aware of mic self noise (I started out with some AKGs that were completely unsuitable), so much so that I bought MKH 30 / 50 / 60 / 70 when they first came out in the late 80s - 25 years ago - as they were without doubt some of the quietest and most robust mics I had ever heard and although I have moved on, they served me well. I owned a 418S for a few years and it had its uses but it was never as quiet as the rest of the MKH range and you had to keep the side element powered up or the mid would become more noisy - annoying if you were short of inputs. I cannot think of a more convenient all in one mic than the 418S and once repaired I would certainly keep it as a spare, but a 30/60 is an ultra quiet directional solution, and being aluminium bodied mics (unlike the 418 in brass) is still quite lightweight and with a little care ill fit in a Rycote WS4. Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 If you're getting self noise with your CMIT you've got an issue needs sorting.> and constantin, you've got schoeps in your backyard ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 If you're getting self noise with your CMIT you've got an issue needs sorting.> and constantin, you've got schoeps in your backyard ) yeah, I know, although it would still take them a few weeks to turn around. Anyway, I don't think it's a problem with my mic. I've got two of them, bought at very different times and both have this. It's not an issue anyway, as it's only apparent on very quiet scenes and it's a kind of mid-range hiss, maybe at 8-12 kHz. But it's there. When I switch to the CMK641 combo, it's not there. A Schoeps engineer did confirm this to me, too. And by comparison the MKH60 is a bit quieter, but it sounds like a 60, not like a Schoeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 From the Schoeps site, CMIT is: suitable for music recording as well as dialogue The issue that needs sorting is using a mic for a purpose for which it is not intended and the noisy consequence of such use. Not sure I would characterize that as "self noise". Don't want folks to read this thread and imagine it less-than as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 few weeks >> Schoeps have turned around stuff for me in days. less than two digits. < 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 From the Schoeps site, CMIT is: suitable for music recording as well as dialogue The issue that needs sorting is using a mic for a purpose for which it is not intended and the noisy consequence of such use. Not sure I would characterize that as "self noise". Don't want folks to read this thread and imagine it less-than as a result. I think using a CMIT to record ambiances on a doc shoot is not exactly the unintended use of this mic, even though Schoeps may not expressly advertise it as such. Even if it is not the intended use, it is still possible to compare different mics in various situations. And to this extent I agree with the assessment that the CMIT is very suitable and sounds very nice on dialogue and music, as long as neither are really really quiet. Just to find out if what I thought about the CMIT was true, I made a quick test recording, with both my CMITs, a CMK641, an MKH60 and a KMR81i. I looked at their spectral graphs and it turns out that the hiss is really there, although it's higher than I thought, it's from around 15kHz and above. It's clearly visible and it's also clearly visible that on the Schoeps CMK641 combo it's not there. BTW, the Neumann KMR81i is a lot quieter here than the Schoeps. I'd just like to point out that I love the CMIT, I use it almost every day and it's a great mic. Just not in every situation. The "hiss" is inaudible in many instances and usually not a problem. In all cases the sound of the mic is still nicer than that of most others. Here are the two screen shots: Schoeps CMIT-5U Schoeps CMK641 I have the screen shots of the other two mics as well, if anyone is interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 are you sure this is not turning out an 'apples to oranges' comparison? you are comparing an interference tube microphone with a hypercardiod small diaphragm microphone. just saying... -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 are you sure this is not turning out an 'apples to oranges' comparison? you are comparing an interference tube microphone with a hypercardiod small diaphragm microphone. just saying... -vin No I know that. And I'm not making a claim that one is better than the other. I'm just using the 641 to demonstrate that there is noise coming out of the CMIT. I could (should?) have uploaded the KMR81 graph, too, because it's much quieter than the CMIT, too, and it's an interference tube Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 I'd say that even though a CMIT sounds good on most interiors, as opposed to most other interference tube mics, for quiet interior scenes my mic of choice would still rather be a mk41 or other hyper. For exterior use, which interference tubes are designed for (mind you, in order to reject unwanted noise!!!) you won't be able to hear any hiss on the CMIT. So all in all one could argue that using interference tubes on scenes without unwanted noise is like shooting birds with cannons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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