Who brings the slate?

[pvanstry]

Btw, I did not mean stu... in a mean and negative way but more like a brain fart kind of "OMG I forgot the slate" way...

[Scott Anderson]

A well equipped kit with Sound Devices, Lectrosonics, or Zaxcom, and Denecke or Ambient, etc. cost tens of thousands but will last many years and has the potential to make you thousands in return.

 

You're hired for who you are on set, but also for what gear you bring to the table. Technical skills are somewhere in that mix, but minor compared to the impression a producer, director, or DP has of you. Good gear is part of the impression you will make; where knowing the technical aspects is necessary to do the work, you either have the skills or not, but a big factor for who they call is whether they like working with you and see you as a pro with the right gear.

 

Put the money into a Denecke (TS-C) or Ambient (ACN-LS) as well as a Lock-it box. The SB-3 has been standard, but the Q-28 is likely to make friends with camera and his assist for it's diminutive size and weight. Multi-track recording (poly WAV files) with timecode jam sync to camera is most often expected. Sound takes care of timecode as we have a vested interest in doing so for post to drop our audio files into an edit timeline.

 

My TS-C and Q-28's are always billable items (having talked about it before the shoot) but I also carry a dumb slate in the same Pelican that doesn't get billed if it's ever needed along with dry-erase and permanent markers, and 1" white gaff as well as BNC and Lemo cables etc. Coordinating prior to the shoot with the AC about what he'll have on hand is rare, so better to just have all the adapters, cables, and markers on hand than leave it to chance.

[studiomprd]

Bud: " Who brings the slate..."

Lou: "No, He brings the slate, Who brings the batteries"

[studiomprd]

Mike: " I might also add that, lately, what constitues an "AC" can be often be somewhat lacking ---- "

what constitutes a DP ? 

having a camera...

 

Billy: " student films from small production companies that all seem to have very unique and cavalier approaches to how the set is ran. "

IOW, they don't know what they are doing;  I often tell folks that the experience they will get on these so-called productions will be bad experience, and what they will learn is how not to make a movie... IOW:  wrong!

 

and, while Scott seems to think the arrows are more important,  I still think it is about the archer; a good, experienced archer will, of course bring proper arrows for the assignment.

" Technical skills are somewhere in that mix, but minor compared to the impression the producer, director, or DP has of you. "

I tend to disagree.

[Eric Toline]

Bud: " Who brings the slate..."

Lou: "No, He brings the slate, Who brings the batteries"

Not many here will know what that refers to or who Lou & Bud are.

[mark kirchner]

Not many here will know what that refers to or who Lou & Bud are.

 

 

costello abbott

[al mcguire]

Louisiana Hot Sauce and Budweiser Beer ?

[johnpaul215]

Billy: while we (sound) do bring a TC slate, they should have told you in advance they want one. On lower budget shoots, you usually get a list of equipment required when you quote your kit fee. Is it one wireless mic and cabled to camera, or 8 wireless mics feeding a stereo mix to two cameras? How many Comteks etc etc. I've worked on plenty of narrative things that won't pay for sync boxes, but I know they *should* have them. I would bring a slate to a "film" (narrative scripted fiction), but maybe not always reality. I don't have the luxury of traveling to every job in a bread truck with every piece of gear I own. I also am not giving away the slate for free. That said, more and more reality seems to want to use a TC slate, so I usually ask when working out the kit. If you are renting one, you definitely can't just bring one along "just in case". Before I owned one, I would let productions know. I told them I could acquire one, but they would obviously have to cover my rental. I sometimes made the suggestion they may be able to get one bundled with the camera rentals for a better deal. When you have the work that justifies buying one, they usually have a pretty good return on investment compared to many other things in the kit. Do some Internet searches for what they rent for per day.

[codyman]

Definitely sound provides a TC Slate, although make sure they pay you for it as part of your kit fee.

[Reg]

In my experience, production provide 'dumb' slate for the AC, and then we sort timecode jam with our lock-it boxes.....but I guess every workflow differs

[Jan McL]

Sorry to have been tough above in this thread; it's not personal obviously since I don't know you but for the words you have posted here.

 

That comment was meant as a broad mama-smack to the youngsters out there.

 

Nobody is going to hire or recommend you unless you have proven your metal in the real world before their eyes.

 

Think about it.

 

Wasn't until I thirded and boomed for some guys that I began to get real work.

[mikefilosa]

Sorry to have been tough above in this thread; it's not personal obviously since I don't know you but for the words you have posted here.

That comment was meant as a broad mama-smack to the youngsters out there.

Nobody is going to hire or recommend you unless you have proven your metal in the real world before their eyes.

Think about it.

Wasn't until I thirded and boomed for some guys that I began to get real work.

 

+11

 

MF

[afewmoreyears]

  One more reason the SOUND dept. normally provides the slate..is to in a strange way provide the confidence in knowing that the info on that slate being displayed correctly... meaning, it works properly.... You most likely know it is stable and works right.. you used it a few days ago and all seems well... you own it (most likely) and have had it serviced and kept it clean and operational... The damn thing works..

 

  If things go south with the code on a slate provided, it is still YOU that somehow becomes the focus point of the trouble, even though it was not your slate... That's just how it is...

 

  By you providing the code from your sound workflow, with the slate you provided, you HELP protect your workflow...at least...  

 

  Now, what about the argument about the sync boxes provided by camera or production...?  Well, who knows, they are also very well built, but crap happens. AT LEAST that TC Slate and YOUR Time Code workflow should be OK... If their box and TC to camera get out of sync,  or go south, that is out of your control... you jammed it, it looked good... you did what you could... again, you don't service it, store it properly, don't drop it etc..  someone else may have in some way dropped or damaged it...

 

  But that darn Slate and your code should be proper, and accurate... You control that system.... MORE rather than less...

 

  Not to say your TC slate has not been dropped or damaged, but at least YOU know the prior show or work had been OK...

[Glen Trew]

TC slates were invented by sound guys back when cameras (that is film cameras) did not speak TC, so they were (and are) considered a sound dept thing.  So, yes, they are kind of considered part of a basic package anymore, no matter how they get billed for.  I can see that the arrangement looks peculiar to someone just starting out, but that's how it is at present.  They may be planning to sync via some auto-sync app like PluralEyes, but being able to see the start TC for the audio clip in picture is a good ref for when things get confused in post.

 

philp

Ivan Kruglak of Coherent Communications invented the timecode slate in the 1980s. It was actually made for the camera department to visually give film cameras a timecode reference. Other than being big, complex, and heavy (took a load of D cells), the main problem was that it cost $5000 30 years ago. So the few that were bought were owned mostly by rental companies. Michael Denecke turned things around with his more affordable timecode slate, the TS-1. I think the real reason timecode slates ended up with the sound department is because camera people were uninterested in electronic devices, and sound people tended to know more about timecode because of the timecode Nagra. While the camera assistants were whining about the weight and complexity, the sound mixers were bringing in an extra $75/day for each slate.

 

Anyway, the short answer is, if sound is being recorded on a timecode sound recorder, then the sound department is expected to bring the timecode slate. If there is no timecode sound recorder, you're off the hook because, then, having a timecode slate makes as much sense as having one walkie talkie.

 

gt

[Marc Wielage]

All great answers in this thread, and I'm also glad to see Glen add the history of how the original Coherent slate was made in the 1980s. (We had so many post problems with the Coherent slate, I swear to god I started calling it the "Incoherent Slate.")

 

Mike Denecke got all the bugs out and built a much better TC box and slate, and his quickly became the standard... I think starting around 1987-1988. I can recall having to sort out many fights between the camera department, the sound department, and the editor, all of whom wanted to blame each other for sound drifting from timecode, or the timecode slate not matching anything. 

 

I also seem to recall that IATSE decided that since timecode was "technically" an audio signal, it was part of videotape, and in the 1980s videotape was part of local 695, they dumped the responsibility of timecode into the sound department's lap. Good or bad, that has stuck ever since.

 

My advice to Billy W above: always try to get a deal memo (even as a deal memo), and write them back to confirm you will supply a "standard sound package" and list the basic equipment. If they want a TC slate, that's X dollars extra, timecode jam box for camera, Y dollars extra, and so on. I think it's fair to say in the advent of digital cameras these days, it's become customary at a certain level to always provide these things. But if it's a rock-bottom cheapo shoot, they get what they get, which is whatever they can negotiate.

[Glen Trew]

While on the history of timecode, I forgot to mention that the Coherent slate was made as part of a timecode system that included an external module for the [non-timecode] Nagra IV-S, before Nagra came out with their timecode version of the IV-S (often referred to as the IV-STC). It was a very elegant design that bolted to the underside of the Nagra. It differed from the Nagra version in that it used the Nagra IV-S Neopilot system to frequency modulate the timecode. Unfortunately for Coherent, when Nagra came out with their own timecode system, they decided the FM process wasn't necessary due to the high frequency of timecode, so they just sent it to the pilot head linearly, which then became the standard. I had one of these Coherent timecode modules for years, but sold it to David Lee (rip) a while back. Would love to have one for the museum if anyone knows of one.

[dominiquegreffard]

All good info here so far. And a bit of history too!

To the OP you could shop for a used slate and get one for a smaller price. Since you are a begginer you ll encounter lot's of non TC cameras where your slate will be of great value for the work flow and the impression that you send out there. And get yourself some neat new little velcro numbers for it.

It is relatively cheap for what it brings i find. Wireless are so much more expensive.

Good luck.

[taylormadeaudio]

Was it IATSE, or SMPTE?

[Jeff Wexler]

"However, I am shocked at the comment above, that the I.A.T.S.E. had anything to do with timecode being a part of sound, so sound has timecode responsibility.  If this is a true statement, please someone offer support of this opinion, because throughout my career it has only been up to me, as to what gear I use, or how I charge for it."

 

I agree with RVD here, I don't think our Union got involved in any of this. The real legacy of the sound department being responsible for things relating to sync goes back to the birth of sound for film. Many years after sync sound was firmly established it was always the sound department that seemed to know the most about whatever system was being used (we used to carry the sync cables that connected to the camera, we had the crystal sync accessory that plugged into the Nagra, etc., etc.).

[osa]

Michael Denecke turned things around with his more affordable timecode slate, the TS-1.

gt

My slate in my kit is a TS-1. I got a great deal on it some years back, replaced the face and removed the c-cell battery compartment. I built a 4 pin right angle adapter for it that connects a sony slim battery plate, as well as 1/8" connector for timecode input from an erx, sb2 or sennheiser g2. All are velcro'ed to the back. Still easy to handle. Have wanted to replace it with a smaller backlit denecke but this thing works too good still in its modified state. Cant believe i am using a piece of history. I wish it could talk, i bet it has stories.

Ken

[al mcguire]

While we are on this topic how did the Harvey 4S w/ Timecode come about ?

[old school]

I do include 1 Smart Slate in my Basic Package. The other 2 are extra charge.

CrewC

[afewmoreyears]

RVD

"As AFMY mentioned above, most folks wanted to know that the slate was in good working order, and that their workflow wasn't effected by a rogue slate. This position doesn't really hold up, due to the incredible reliability of the Denecke timecode devices. Yet, it still is one of the reasons, that sound mixers owned timecode slates. "

Its not the slate but the persons who operate them.. I agree they are very well built.... And hold up well considering... But, I have had all three of my slates in for repairs from time to time mostly from dropping and abuse.. The manufacturer has a hard time eliminating those situations...

I had one go off a process trailer once... Hit hard and slid for 50 ft or more... It SEEMED to work OK..but was pulled out of use and sent in... Now..if that happened to a rental without the obvious damage from sliding..how would someone know if it was compromised? Testing right then was not an option...the quick " match numbers" is not the best option in that case..

It is for MY piece of mind to use my gear...but if need be you must do what you have to and hope the rental facility or camera dept. brings a slate that works well... And your right Richard...most of the time they are fine... All you can do is all you can do.. The slate is one of a few pieces of gear that can affect our workflow that may be in some cases provided by others. I do my best to eliminate those situations..

[studiomprd]

marc: " I also seem to recall that IATSE decided that since timecode was... "

err... not to sure on that...

I don't think IA had anything to do with it...

 

RVD: " include the slates as part of the  basic package. "

one slate and the TC Nagra was part of my timecode package.

 

tt: " Was it IATSE, or SMPTE? "

neither, really...

 

big AL: " how did the Harvey 4S w/ Timecode come about ? "

Google is your friend.

 

Speaking of Coherent's FM TC system, it was used on the movie "Wind", although not with Coherent slates!

Edited September 3, 2014 by studiomprd

[Michael Miramontes]

I always bring a TS-C slate to my shoots however I always talk some "Realty gigs" from using it. I'll use an ERX to camera and send a beep before and after each take. In any case, like everyone else has mentioned you should always bring one. Yes, they are expensive but its one of those things that Producers need to know you have so that they feel at ease knowing you are a "pro". 

 

JUST BUY ONE ALREADY!