Eric Toline Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I agree with pretty much everything said so far. As a 01V96 user, my only observation in the "perceived value" part of this thread is that there is something about a mixer with a digital display on it that adds a "Mission Control" vibe to the mixer cart. It makes those who are not too familiar with sound go "Oooh! Blinky buttons!" and then treat you like a genius. It's the sizzle not the steak that gets them to say "Oooh Blinky buttons". Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I actually am pretty over the perception thing, and went to a lot of trouble and expense to configure the Mackie-based system I used to have (incl the Forrest 12vdc mod etc). I had done MANY music albums, live recordings and soundtrack projects on Mackies and they worked out very well. But for dialog mixing outside on location I was less happy with them: the ergonomics of the little faders (this was pre-Onyx), the lack of communications stuff, no transformers (big deal for video work) and the need for a lot of 1/4" adapters ended up putting me off. I was sort of amazed by this (and embarrassed) but had to admit it was true. If you guys are making the Mackies work for you I say more power to you--much bang for buck and I have no issue with the sound. I do have an issue with the Onyx mixers as front ends for Boom Recorder/Metacorder systems that I'm sure you are all very tired of hearing about, and decided to not go that way because of that issue and the fact that the Onyx seemed much bigger, heavier, more power-hungry and non-DC moddable than the VLZ analog series which I'd used so much. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 The eye candy factor is a funny thing. Whenever I use Boom Recorder as a back up to my Deva, I use it's spectrum analyzer and get many wows, cool, neat, etc. People seem to think it is magic somehow. Gotta love eye wash. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 I totally agree with Crew. People on set often look at my boom recorder setup with all the meters and spectrum analyzer prancing and get this "wow" factor from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmart Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 Hey Carimart, cart mixers need to go everywhere and anywhere. That means 12v DC power when AC is not there. Certainly so. I wouldn't even count on AC power. But how were people using the Mackies then? Through an inverter powering from a 12v battery, right? Weight becomes a concern, but monitoring, routing, and head room for voice how ever it comes at us is the deal maker or breaker in my book. On mine too. Dialog quality and its integration with the mics you are using, as well as practicality should be what counts. Can't beat a Cooper or a Sonosax from all reports. Probably not. Even if right now it may not be easy to get a Cooper. So what are the other options? Mackie makes gr8 well built stuff, I like mine, but it would never work the way the job presents itself on a lot of locations. Money aside, I would save your $$$ and get a mixer that works for your world and is not a mass market unit. Or not. Maybe I am considering the idea as I don't have as many options, at least where I live and work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Certainly so. I wouldn't even count on AC power. But how were people using the Mackies then? Through an inverter powering from a 12v battery, right? On mine too. Dialog quality and its integration with the mics you are using, as well as practicality should be what counts. Probably not. Even if right now it may not be easy to get a Cooper. So what are the other options? Maybe I am considering the idea as I don't have as many options, at least where I live and work. The Mackies can be fine--you have to know what you are doing in any case. The Mackies require you to do much of the work to config it for motion picture/video dialog recording that Cooper and Sax etc have done already. Again, if you know what you are doing re that then it's not a huge deal, they are very flexible. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Hey carlmart, sorry for slaughtering your name. I re read my response to you. Some folks who work a lot do it well with a Mackie. I was thinking of glacierjays question in all my posts which is about upgrading from a Mackie. I think when you know your in for the long run, buying top equipment is the best option long term/big picture. Most can't do it all at once, I don't know any who have. I would dig it if you posted a brief bio in 'Who I am Today'. Most who have done so liked it. It is much easier to form a response when one knows a little about a person and the market they work in and where they want to go. Good luck. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmart Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 I would dig it if you posted a brief bio in 'Who I am Today'. Most who have done so liked it. It is much easier to form a response when one knows a little about a person and the market they work in and where they want to go. Sure. Where do I go to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Sure. Where do I go to do that? Look in "The Daily Journal" for the "Who I am today" thread. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmart Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Most can't do it all at once, I don't know any who have. I would dig it if you posted a brief bio in 'Who I am Today'. Most who have done so liked it. It is much easier to form a response when one knows a little about a person and the market they work in and where they want to go. Good luck. Question satisfied. I wrote a short bio in "Who I am today". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 It seems like few mortals can afford the SXST (but I can dream....). The Cooper 106/8 seems the fave here by both acclaim and vote (as I recall). Glen--do you sell AD now? If you did that might change my thinking about them.... Philip Perkins Hi Philip, Trew Audio has always sold AD mixers. In year past, I have used them extensively myself, and have fond memories of them. Audio Developments have always been a respected brand, but, probably because Cooper was made in the US, the Audio Developments mixers were less prevalent in the US than, for example, the UK (where AD is made). Also, in years past when the Canadian dollar was so much lower than the US dollar, the Cooper mixers were considered as out-of-reach in Canada as some consider the Sonosax mixers now. Anyway, that might help explain why Audio Development mixers are not yet as common in the US compared to other locales. Now that Cooper mixers are no longer being made, and considering the current value of the US dollar, I'm sure that Audio Developments mixers will be getting more attention from the US market. On a side note about the price of Sonosax mixers: Consider that the [ballpark] price of a new SX-ST 8-buss mixer at US$20,000, when adjusted for inflation, etc, is in line with the price 25 years ago of the Sonosax SX-S8 2-buss mixer of US$10,000. When factoring in the enormous increase in inputs, outputs, monitoring, headroom, and routing abilities, the US$20,000 price of a new mixer is actually much more bang for the buck than the US$10,000 from 25 years ago. Lastly, considering that an impressive number of those who were wise enough to scrape together US10,000 for a Sonosax mixer 25 years ago are still using them. Buy once. Buy what you need. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I picked up a little Audio Developments interface box on eBay recently. Well constructed? Let's put it this way, If you drove a Hummer over it, the only damage would be to the Hummer. I checked out Audio Development's web site to see if there was any paperwork for it and only found a manual for a newer interface box with a different purpose. So, I emailed them. I promptly received a reply stating that they didn't have a manual in electronic form for this older device but what would I like -- a manual, a schematics, or both? My response brought a photocopy of the manual and schematics via snail-mail so fast one would swear they're located in Ohio. No charge. If they care this much about the little stuff... JB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Audio Developments are a Great, British Company of the old school. They make rock solid products, and their service is second to none. I suspect that of late, the dollar to pound rate has worked against them in the US market. They used to make a whole range of little problem solving boxes, all of which were built like tanks, and worked brilliantly. Unfortunately I dont think that they make them any more. I ceased to be a customer when I chose to go digital by way of a Cameo mixer. I have missed dealing with them since!! They now make a digital OP module for their 149 mixers, so digits are available at last. Kindest regards, Simon B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glacierjay Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Thanks for all the responses on the mixers. I am currently looking at the Audio Developments and the Coopers. Also Thanks to Jeff Wexler for this great board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlmart Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Aren't there other options, even if obscure, to the AD, Cooper and Sonosax? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jimg Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Aren't there other options, even if obscure, to the AD, Cooper and Sonosax? Hi, Carlos Other than the Yamaha and Mackie mixers others have talked about, there is the Seeport Seemix series of mixers: http://www.seemix.no/seeport.html Probably very expensive these days, since they come from Norway. Support in the Western Hemisphere is from Sonotechnique in Toronto and Montreal, Canada. Their website is: http://www.sonotechnique.ca/en/index.html Best regards, Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Aren't there other options, even if obscure, to the AD, Cooper and Sonosax? There are, incl. the discontinued larger PSC boards, the forthcoming PSC "Miranda", Soundcraft portable mixers (not just the ones that compete w/ Mackie); Yamaha also makes Mackie-like mixers, and then there is the whole area of fader panel add-ons to current NL recorders (Deva Mix12 and Cantar Cantarem). The Allen and Heath "MixWizard" series are pretty good in the Mackie analog zone, with longer faders and more EQ than the VLZ Mackies. (I've never heard of a DC mod for the AH boards or the Yamaha analog consoles, but if it was possible for Mackie it should be possible for them as well.) Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drpro Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Another British company that makes a number of audio items including several location type mixers is Glensound. www.glensound.co.uk David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Glensound make brilliant gear, but it tends to be radio or OB oriented. Twelco in Hungary make more portable mixers, ENG style. Kindest regards, Simon B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted August 11, 2008 Report Share Posted August 11, 2008 I see (from a post on RAMPS) that Sonosax is about to introduce a new mixing panel. The Sonosax SX-ES64 is a six-channel, 4-bus mixer with an expected shipping date of September 2008. Cost is only $7800. (Well, that's still a lot but considerably less than the top-of-the-game Sonosax SX-ST or even the Cooper 208.) There are extra charges for A-D converters and for EQ so the final cost, with all possible options, might be closer to $10,000. Still not an onerous cost for Sonosax quality in a panel mixer. It does not appear to be expandable past six channels but an awful lot of work is still being done on Cooper 106 panels so that may be enough for many. Here's a link to the page on the Sonosax site: http://sonosax.ch/mixers/sxes64/sxes64_index.html David Waelder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brent Lestage Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 David, This Sonosax mixer bears a similar resemblance and feature set to the tiny Cooper CS-306. Any chance Sonosax bought the patent from Mr. (Andy) Cooper? Looks solid though. -- Brent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted August 12, 2008 Report Share Posted August 12, 2008 This Sonosax mixer bears a similar resemblance and feature set to the tiny Cooper CS-306. Any chance Sonosax bought the patent from Mr. (Andy) Cooper? I really don't know. There has been some speculation that Andy Cooper might have made some arrangement that might license his designs to someone but that is entirely speculation. If I were to guess, I would say that Sonosax is not a likely company to purchase his designs simply because they have a very capable design staff of their own and their own reputation for excellence of design and execution. But sometimes collaborations surprise. David Waelder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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