Matthias Richter Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Hi there, I have a scene with dialogue where the actor will be on a bike. We will do the dialogue part on a trailer. Fortunately there will be no genni but I`m concerned about wind on mic and the engine of the trailer-car. How is booming dialogue at 30km/h (around 20mph)? Is it possible or will it suffer from heavy wind noise? I will have lavs too but the actor wears a T-shirt only so proper wind protection will not be possible due to the tight wardrobe. He will be talking to his cellphone but even if I put a mic into the phone how will I run the cable? And the tx is small but not small enough to hide it inside a prop phone or something like that. And he doesn`t wear a basecap or anything where I could place a lav. Any ideas are appreciated. matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason porter Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I would use a lav with a windjammer taped to his chest or sternum area, as well as boom it with a long shotgun. Any possibility of hiding a mic on the bicycle? maybe just at the base of the handlebars? -JP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I think Jason covers the options well. My guess is a directional mic and a good boom op is your best option. 20 mph is fast for bike ridding, maybe the rig can go slower. Let us know how it works out. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 Hi there, I have a scene with dialogue where the actor will be on a bike. We will do the dialogue part on a trailer. Fortunately there will be no genni but I`m concerned about wind on mic and the engine of the trailer-car. matthias All good suggestions above about types of microphones and microphone placement, just use your good judgement on the day. Every time I have done things like this (and I would include "walk and talks" on horseback shot from camera car), the noise of the camera-car/tow rig has been the biggest concern. When doing this sort of shot with a motorcycle on a trailer you have the advantage that you know you will need to put in motorcycle engine noise and possibly traffic. With a bicycle, unless it is in motorized traffic, you don't get any help there. I would concentrate on the placement of the bicycle on the trailer, as far away from the tow vehicle as possible, and also really work on the speed. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted August 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 I would concentrate on the placement of the bicycle on the trailer, as far away from the tow vehicle as possible, and also really work on the speed. - Jeff Wexler yeah I guess you`re right - the speed is the only parameter I can work on. Actually there will be two people on bikes next to each other and we will shoot the scene with two cams, one on each and we pretend that they will ride alone while having their cell conversation. So I`m assuming that framing will be rather tight as they need to have the other person out of frame. That will help as the boom can come in close. Will let you know how it worked ... Cheers, matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 The only concern with the new detail of 2 talent, 2 cameras doing the same thing at the same time is that you will have identical bg noise on both shots, and if the other actor steps on lines, it will be tough to edit convincingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bperlman Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 All good suggestions. I favor Crew's thoughts about a directional (Senn 816) being your best chance mic wise and Jeff's about where the bikes are in relationship to the process truck's noise. I would add, that you should address you concern's ( not about which mic to use, but rather the sound of the tow vehicle) to the director and make sure he/she is wearing a good set of cans. Also, be mindful that vehicle sound vary greatly depending on what their doing. Starting off or pulling up-hill is much noisier than 20mph cruising. It's a noisy world out there, but someone's got to mic it. Good luck. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Birchfiel Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 A 416 in a zep. and fuzzy should work ok with no overlaps in dialogue ? with a boom op. that can remember cue words good luck. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Mantlo Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 The only concern with the new detail of 2 talent, 2 cameras doing the same thing at the same time is that you will have identical bg noise on both shots, and if the other actor steps on lines, it will be tough to edit convincingly. Wouldn't the similar back ground make the editing easier? Split tracks and no problem. You do have to watch the overlaps though if they're 2 seperate shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted August 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Biggest issue for me here would be to ensure that they don't use the onboard generator on the insert car. Cheers, RVD that`s what I pointed out to the Director and DOP very early on. Both are really open to my concerns and so there will be no generator involved. As to cover up the insert car engine sound in post I will suggest that we have some master shots with the bikes going in some light traffic (just wide shots where you can have the dialogue track from the CUs). What I read from the script there might be some overlapping dialogue. I will address this to the Director again as they most probably wanna have the off-screen talents voice EQed to a phony sound which will not be possible if they do overlap. btw. I will have some car-dialogue on that trailer as well and have told the trailer company to move the generator to the front of their vehicle rather than having it on the platform. They will do. Thanks to all for your help!! Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted August 7, 2008 Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 Richard - I think the overlap concern is that these shots are supposed to be happening in different places, but are being shot at the same time, for the performance I am guessing. You wouldn't want the bleed of one close up getting into the other. I would favor one bicycle at a time, and have the other actor on the insert car feeding the lines through a practical cell phone. There is also concern about the noise of the bicycles. If someone is not pedaling, the gears will be very noisy and directly in the path of your shotgun mic. Two bikes will be even noisier. My other suggestion would be to borrow or rent headphones with very good noise isolation, if you don't own some. If you are riding in or on the insert car, the noise of the engine bleeding through your headphones in this situation might make it hard for you to determine the quality of sound you are getting. Good luck, and please let us know how it went. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted August 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2008 I would favor one bicycle at a time, and have the other actor on the insert car feeding the lines through a practical cell phone. Robert thats a good one actually! I will suggest that version to the Director. But than we have to drive more often ... Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 it`s been a while but to close this thread I wanted to sum how it worked in the end. Both actors were on the trailer at the same time, cycling free wheeling, both having their cell conversation in real time shooting with two cams doing single mid shots / CUs on both actors, available light only so no generator involved. Both actors were wired with lavs and both were boomed, the girl with a MKH 60 and the guy with a CMIT. She was boomed overhead as she was sitting upright on her bike, he was boomed from below as he was sitting on a racestyle bike speaking more downwards. It was a huge trailer so the complete sound dep (mixer and two BoomOps plus my cart) were on it. Shame no pic was done. They managed to have the conversation without overlapping as that would have made it difficult to EQ one actor to a phone sound without touching the other actor with that EQ too. Cheers and thanks (late but not too late I hope), Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 just came back from our big premiere-screening here in Berlin and I must say that scene worked like a charm. Even the re-recording mixer was asking how I captured the sound on that scene. It sounded like the booms were used a lot with maybe a little bit of the radios mixed in. Best Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Thats great. What is the name of the film in case it comes our way. Sometimes it all works out. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted October 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 well I doubt that it jumps over the pond. The only actor you might know is Til Schweiger. The film is called "Männerherzen" smthing like "mens heart". http://wwws.warnerbros.de/maennerherzen/ Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 I just want to say thanks Matthias for following through on this old topic! A real cool read. A few months ago I did a scene with 2 people on bicycles, free riding, where one is trying to catch up with the other one down Esplanade Avenue. The camera was leading the talent on a tiny electric golf cart (they made sure it was electric for me) with no room for me to sit anywhere. So I used all wireless, a Sanken CS-3e mounted on the golf cart pointing at the talent, and two COS-11s with Koala lav fuzzies in the sweet spot right in the center of their chests. The vehicle I was on was in front of the golf cart, so we were pretty far away from the character who was trying to catch up. Rather than bust apart the sound cart wireless set up, I just took the two talent 411s, put one whip antenna on each, and then for the other diversity used two helicals mounted on the van (Ledford-style you could say) and luckily that did the trick. The mounted boom wireless just worked with whip antennas, much to my amazement. Came out great, no engine noise, no wind, no fabric thanks to the koala lav windjammers. Dan Izen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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