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Looking to upgrade recorder next spring. Torn. Appreciate your opinions.


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"If you have to start rigging your machine with 3rd party parts to keep it current, the writing is on the wall."

 

3rd party parts? The only 3rd party part that I see mentioned or possibly necessary is external CF reader/writer. If you remember, Mirror, with the machines from Sound Devices if you were on a job that required DVD-RAM as a deliverable, you had to buy a 3rd party part (a Panasonic DVD-RAM drive "branded" by Sound Devices in another 3rd party enclosure) which enabled the owners of Sound Devices recorders to "keep up" with the Deva.

 

When looking at any used machine, there are going to be compromises and accommodations necessary. When continuing to use older equipment as long as it still gets the job done, the only thing you are denying yourself is the latest and greatest new thing. Personally, I have not had any trouble "keeping up" on the last 20 movies I have done with my 10 year old Deva.

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"If you have to start rigging your machine with 3rd party parts to keep it current, the writing is on the wall."

3rd party parts? The only 3rd party part that I see mentioned or possibly necessary is external CF reader/writer. If you remember, Mirror, with the machines from Sound Devices if you were on a job that required DVD-RAM as a deliverable, you had to buy a 3rd party part (a Panasonic DVD-RAM drive "branded" by Sound Devices in another 3rd party enclosure) which enabled the owners of Sound Devices recorders to "keep up" with the Deva.

I'm pretty sure that Zaxcom didn't actually make their own DVD-ram writer either. They just put one straight into the recorder.

So I would consider this pretty much the sme thing. With Sound Devices, though, you had (have) the choice of adding the DVD writer, but you had to pay extra for it. It really comes down to personal preference (as always).

I have never been asked to hand in a DVD, so I never bought the writer, and Iam glad there isn't one in my recorder, which would add size, weight and the potential for failures. But I'm sure for those who did need the DVD it was great to have it already in the machine.

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"If you have to start rigging your machine with 3rd party parts to keep it current, the writing is on the wall."

 

3rd party parts? The only 3rd party part that I see mentioned or possibly necessary is external CF reader/writer. If you remember, Mirror, with the machines from Sound Devices if you were on a job that required DVD-RAM as a deliverable, you had to buy a 3rd party part (a Panasonic DVD-RAM drive "branded" by Sound Devices in another 3rd party enclosure) which enabled the owners of Sound Devices recorders to "keep up" with the Deva.

 

When looking at any used machine, there are going to be compromises and accommodations necessary. When continuing to use older equipment as long as it still gets the job done, the only thing you are denying yourself is the latest and greatest new thing. Personally, I have not had any trouble "keeping up" on the last 20 movies I have done with my 10 year old Deva.

 

 

I was referring to his internal drive hack to convert it to internal CF card were the life blood code (MARF) is written.  This machine was made to write it's primary code to an internal PATA hard drive and and you can not use the newer SATA drives,  The PATA drives are not being made anymore and since we all know that hard drives WILL fail with use/time or just time without use, this hack is the only way to keep this machine alive.  You must use 3rd party parts  to keep this machine going in the near, near future.  

 

The PATA drives that you MIGHT be able to find on ebay are the ones someone found in their basement. 

 

Firewire 400 card readers are also old stock that someone found in their basement.  They are not being made anymore.

 

These are the facts.  If you can't see this, you are in denial.

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I was referring to his internal drive hack to convert it to internal CF card were the life blood code (MARF) is written. This machine was made to write it's primary code to an internal PATA hard drive and and you can not use the newer SATA drives, The PATA drives are not being made anymore and since we all know that hard drives WILL fail with use/time or just time without use, this hack is the only way to keep this machine alive. You must use 3rd party parts to keep this machine going in the near, near future.

The PATA drives that you MIGHT be able to find on ebay are the ones someone found in their basement.

Firewire 400 card readers are also old stock that someone found in their basement. They are not being made anymore.

These are the facts. If you can't see this, you are in denial.

A glaring problem with your errant "facts" Mr. Anonymous, is that adapting a Deva to internal CF use is not a hack (see the definitions in Wikipedia to further your education in this regard). I, and others, use a standard, common, readily available inexpensive adapter, and standard, common, readily available Compact Flash cards. You seem hung up on the decline of PATA hard drives even though it's a total non-issue in this case.

The only denial here is your insistence of possessing an infallible opinion. But, the fact is, you're wrong. The time has come to accept it and move on.

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I call it a hack because the manufacture did not nor does it condone the use of their machine in this way.  You can not buy the parts to do this from Zaxcom.

 

Let me put it this way: There are more companies making 1/4" tape for your ancient Nagra then there are companies making PATA drives and firewire 400 card readers for our Devas.

 

BTW  We are just talking about a recorder here - why are you guys letting your emotions color your posts?

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"I call it a hack because the manufacture did not nor does it condone the use of their machine in this way.  You can not buy the parts to do this from Zaxcom."

 

WTF?

 

Use of CF cards in the place of the Deva hard drive is a perfect way forward for any customer that wants to set up their Deva that way.

 

Glenn Sanders

President Zaxcom Inc.

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Let me put it this way: There are more companies making 1/4" tape for your ancient Nagra then there are companies making PATA drives and firewire 400 card readers for our Devas.

 

That is sadly true. But in Glenn's defense, they do have a fairly large stock of replacement parts, and I still see tons of new-old-stock PATA 250GB drives and firewire card readers all over eBay. Let's face it, Zaxcom bends over backwards to keep 10-year-old machines running, which I don't think Apple or Sony or most other major hardware makers will do. Most of them will say, "a 2004 machine? Sorry, no longer supported." My experience is that major pro audio companies like Sound Devices, Zaxcom, and Lectrosonics will generally step up and find a way to find a solution for the user.

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"I call it a hack because the manufacture did not nor does it condone the use of their machine in this way.  You can not buy the parts to do this from Zaxcom."

 

WTF?

 

Use of CF cards in the place of the Deva hard drive is a perfect way forward for any customer that wants to set up their Deva that way.

 

Glenn Sanders

President Zaxcom Inc.

 

 

Do you sell parts to make this happen? No.  Do you write about this in any of your literature?  No.  

 

Mirror

President Mirror Sound Inc.

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That is sadly true. But in Glenn's defense, they do have a fairly large stock of replacement parts, and I still see tons of new-old-stock PATA 250GB drives and firewire card readers all over eBay. Let's face it, Zaxcom bends over backwards to keep 10-year-old machines running, which I don't think Apple or Sony or most other major hardware makers will do. Most of them will say, "a 2004 machine? Sorry, no longer supported." My experience is that major pro audio companies like Sound Devices, Zaxcom, and Lectrosonics will generally step up and find a way to find a solution for the user.

 

 

Tons?  A gross exaggeration.

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Except you present your opinions as facts. Sometimes I'll say things the way I see them without actually stating "in my opinion". This makes my argument seem like I know best, even though it's actually just an opinion.

He's pretty sure he wants a Deva. And by saying the Deva's old, you're not helping him change his opinion, in fact the way I read it is you bash on him for even thinking Deva.

If my buddy wanted to buy a 74 VW beetle I wouldn't tell him it's antiquated. It might be exactly what he needs. Chance are he probably know about the technical limitations of the beetle but still want it because of its (relatively speaking) great performance after all these years. I wouldn't state the obvious fact that it runs on gas and has no bells and whistles or any modern comfort. But that's just my opinion, man..

Edited by Olle Sjostrom
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My .02 for what it's worth on this thread... 

 

<Zaxcom and Sound Devices are the "Mercedes and BMW" of the business...>

 

And the Cantar is the Jaguar or Bentley or... 

 

Heh. :)

At the moment, Cantar is a business scam to manipulate the French Court requirements that followed the bankruptcy sale of Aaton.

You can love the company all you want but at this very moment,  I "personally" would not put my eggs in their basket.

Only time will tell if the new owners are serious about the Aaton line or just care about Aaton Patents...

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If my buddy wanted to buy a 74 VW beetle I wouldn't tell him it's antiquated. It might be exactly what he needs. Chance are he probably know about the technical limitations of the beetle but still want it because of its (relatively speaking) great performance after all these years. I wouldn't state the obvious fact that it runs on gas and has no bells and whistles or any modern comfort. But that's just my opinion, man..

I disagree with this, in this context. The OP is asking for advice for upgrading his recorder. He is not specifically asking for opinions to back up his already made-up mind. Mirror merely gave him reasons not to move to a Deva.

We are not talking about collectir's items, like your friend's 74 beetle would be. We are (to keep to your analogy) talking about a reliable reasonably modern car that will do its job every day and if it ever fails, it should be easy to get spare parts.

The OP already has that 74 beetle. It makes little sense to recommend a 78 beetle.

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I disagree with this, in this context. The OP is asking for advice for upgrading his recorder. He is not specifically asking for opinions to back up his already made-up mind. Mirror merely gave him reasons not to move to a Deva.

We are not talking about collectir's items, like your friend's 74 beetle would be. We are (to keep to your analogy) talking about a reliable reasonably modern car that will do its job every day and if it ever fails, it should be easy to get spare parts.

The OP already has that 74 beetle. It makes little sense to recommend a 78 beetle.

Yeah so the Beetle was a weak comparison. Don't know too much about vintage cars either.

 

But I read the OPs post as nearly made up and just needed some support in that almost made up mind. And therefore I read Mirror's comment as a very uncalled for bashing upon OPs thinking.

Because, yes surely, we all know that the Deva is inferior to current models in many ways. Still, people are using them with great success. So that sort of goes without saying. This, I'm sure, the OP is aware of. This, I'm sure, Mirror is also aware of.

Therefore, Mirror's post read like bashing not on the Deva, but on the OPs thinking, which I think is why many people reacted. The post is a bit harsh. Like a daddy "knowing the truth".

The whole quite infected Zaxcom thing (any Zaxcom critic often gets attacked or slandered one way or another) on this board is a bit disturbing, I agree.

 

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Ok, let's forget about cars.

Anyway, I certainly don't want to defend Mirror more than neccesary, but I don't see the "bashing of the OP". He did point something out about the Deva which the OP possibly hadn't considered before, which is fair. Whether others agree or not is another issue. Sure, Mirror could have worded this differently (I have mentioned this in other threads), but that is who he/she/it is. That doesn't affect the relevance of its opinion

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