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Shrinking Sound Crew-- is this a NYC thing, or is it everywhere?


cory

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More and more often, I am encountering producers who tell me that they've "never heard of a two person sound crew (let alone a 3 person one with a utility) and what do I mean that narrative shoots need a boom operator? Am I not talented enough to do my job?"

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

Are other people encountering this?

What do you do in a situation like this?

How do you let them know about the importance of a boom operator-- and unfortunately no, the AC analogy doesn't work.

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They've never heard of a 2-3 man team because those Producers have never actually worked on a narrative film set.  One man sound guys who mix and boom are usually doing corporate, commercial, documentary or reality based productions.  

Yes I know that. Do you run into that in Texas at all?

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More and more often, I am encountering producers who tell me that they've "never heard of a two person sound crew (let alone a 3 person one with a utility) and what do I mean that narrative shoots need a boom operator? Am I not talented enough to do my job?"

 

etc. etc. etc.

 

Are other people encountering this?

What do you do in a situation like this?

How do you let them know about the importance of a boom operator-- and unfortunately no, the AC analogy doesn't work.

These are not prospective employers.  They are not producers with any scripted project planning experience.

 

All the budget template forms include at least a two person crew in the line items, and many include a utility.

 

Never mind the analogy.  Show them a credit list from films and tv. or a crew list.

 

Better, just say goodbye.

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They've never heard of a 2-3 man team because those Producers have never actually worked on a narrative film set.  One man sound guys who mix and boom are usually doing corporate, commercial, documentary or reality based productions.  

NO..... not commercial.... anyone in L.A. doing Commercial sound with no boom op is HANGED!!!  or Hung..

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I see it here is Los Angeles on low budget indie stuff. If they dont think its important or "dont have the budget" for a boom op then they can do it without me. Just tell those producers that you dont think that their project is worth your time. Since they dont know about these basic standards, down the line if they ever start doing more legit work theyll realize that they made themselves look like a fool.

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Maybe this producer has no experience in a feature film and tv drama or scripted work.

Recently I turn down a job for a short film (paid work - wow) because the producer has expect from me to do the job of the sound mixer, the first assistant sound job and the job from the second assistant sound.

 

I explained with simple description what does the production sound mixer, the first assistant sound and the second assistant sound. Since the script was require only one assistant sound (no reason for second assistant based on script, location, amount of actors, number of cameras, general workflow etc) I quoted the rates for production sound mixer and first assistant sound. Never heard back (and I am happy for this).

 

At least I spend two hours to secure positions rather than spending three miserable days on set with a "producer" and director where doesn't know what does the first assistant sound. "Man it was a short film with money. You are crazy mate" he told me a good friend and collaborator. "And that's why you love me" I said. hahaha

 

It is one of the reason why I named 1st Assistant Sound rather Boom Operator.

 

Agree with Alex Ramirez

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You can certainly do the sound for a very small narrative film doco/one-man band style, successfully even, if you are prepared, sharp and strong enough.   There is no point in denying that this is taking place.   But it is a big burnout for the soundie to do so even on a small film, and as ambitions expand the situation can quickly become unmanageable.  Are these producers willing to give up some of the currently available tools of production in order to simplify the shoot enough to be handle-able by one soundie?  I recorded entire feature films alone with a single boom mic mostly--it can be done.  But the problem is that while some producers think that sound should work that way, they also may want the options of multiple cameras, very wide moving-camera shots with lots of dialog from lots of people in lousy (or stolen) locations with minimal wardrobe and prop support, with playback scenes and elaborate monitoring, and so on.  So my thought for these audio-minimalist producers is that I might be down if they show me that the other depts are going really minimal too.  Otherwise it's a 2 person (if not a 3 person) job.

 

philp

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For me, I see the trend ( in quebec at least ) toward one man band in Indie films. The last two projects I did, production directors asked me to go through the script and identify which days I would need a boom op. They made it clear that all days was not an option and that they would ask me for a reason why I would need one.

I know, I can already hear all the answers, " don't do it, not worth your time", " everyday since you can't get a decent mix when booming", " to hard for one guy to do properly" etc...

Well the reality is that, on such production were its mostly one or two persons at a time, reduced crews everywhere so scene changes take longer ( plenty of time for mixing people's up), and very little demands for other aspect of the work ( two IFB tops, no playback )... I still don't agree, two guys is much better, better reaction time, more ideas for a better sound, one mix the other booms, mixer can check for shadows/trim for boom etc...

Unfortunatly it's all about money and they would rather stend it on the image ( not that they are not also cutting on the image side also... ).

But not on the bigger budget stuff or TV series.

My two cents from my side of the border.

Pascal

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cory has been sleeping for a while: " Are other people encountering this?

yes, nothing new

What do you do in a situation like this?

pass on the gig

 

How do you let them know about the importance of a boom operator-- "

that is the rough one, but point is that they don't know...

,maybe send them a box of clue.

 

 

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   : "  One man sound guys who mix and boom are usually doing corporate, commercial, documentary or reality based productions. "

and the cheap ones at that...although there is a lot of OMB sound for Doc's, and many trackers also carry a boom on so-called "reality".

 

JonG said it well: " Just tell those wanna-be so-called producers that you dont think that their project is worth your time. "

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There was a time when the camera crew was an operator and ONE assistant camera - and more things could go wrong back then.

And it all worked well.... Now it seems there are always 3 or 4 - and pictures are pretty much WYSIWYG...

 

THATs the great big change in the world of HD cinema....  and of course, even with that many people, god forbid there should be a WIRE connecting camera to monitor... it has to be a Teradeck or similar wirele$$$ signal... they rent for about half a sound package, dollarwise.

 

Stand your ground hombre....

 

MF

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I don't agree with that producer's mentality. I see this trend happening. But the problem is fueled when accepting these jobs.

To reiterate what's been said , It definitely lies in more corporate, reality, extreme low budget Indy stuff. As always, depends on the show.

We try to be a 3 person crew, the past few shows have I have to fight to have a 3rd and insist on a boom op. As stated above, usually from productions that don't know better.

Unless it's a sit down interview, I wouldn't recommend/work with any less than a mixer & boom team.

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In the land of Buffet, there is only OMBs. If or when a boom op is offered, trying to find a boom op that knows what they are doing is almost impossible to find. It would be better for me to be the boom op and let the other person operate the rest of the equipment. I've tried to explain how the audio could be better with a larger sound crew, but it falls on deaf ears.

 

I have very few if any people ask me how to become a sound person, if fact, I'm getting asked more and more of what my "other" job is. Little do they know I make more than most people working twice as many days as I do.

 

In my market, it is getting harder finding people wanting to work in the G&E departments. Most are wanting to be the producers and directors and camera operators and are already shooting stuff at Craig list rates with their own 5Ds because they have never been around a bigger set.

 

Even when I work on the national news, we are only seeing older crew because the younger crowd doesn't want to buy all the equipment that is on the list and only get a fraction of the rental back.

 

I also run into the out of towners that don't believe me that there are only three of us in town that own a mixer/recorder, over two wireless mics, a couple of boom options, TC slates and comteks, Drop the recorder, and I can only add two more people to the group. Then to ad a reference is hard because we have never worked with each other.

 

It is not easy to do this job in the smaller markets with a crew or not. 

 

Scott.....

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Always the same story here. Of course, for normal or big budget shows this is a No thanks, and if you can pick between being a OMB and another job that pays for an assistant, the choice is obvious. If you need to take the job, tell them the truth, which is that it will sound noticably worse if you do it alone (and that would be the case with even the best soundie in the world). And that it will take more than twice as long for you to prepare for a scene, including wiring everyone etc. Point out the advantages of having a boom op. If they insist, take the gig, take your time, take the money. Next time make them hire a boom op.

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Couple of years ago, before a feature project - I had this email conversation with a "PRODUCER" with "lots of experience" and with a "number of SUNDANCE" projects. 

 

Me: Please let me know frame rates for time code. 

 

She: In all my years, I have never had a sound guy ask me this. You have to jam sync before every take. I hope you will be recording the sound properly. 

 

Me: Well, I asked you this because your Exec Producer told me to ask you - SINCE YOU DON'T have a post-production supervisor yet. Obviously, you know nothing about this, easy to figure this out. Also the same reason why no sound person must have asked you this in the past - since you know nada about this. Why don't you make it easy on yourself and find someone who IS going to work in spot - a Post-Prod supervisor, or a PIC EDITOR? 

 

[Director intervenes here - takes things further - gets Skywalker Sound to talk to me - with the hope that they were going to do the post on this. Skywalker brings in an assistant editor (from earlier projects) to write to me with details. I figure everything with them in one email response. Skywalker responds - "Sorry if we were dwelling in the basics - obviously you know what is what. Sometimes, you would be apalled at what we eventually get."

 

All clear. UNTIL - DP wants to shoot a different frame rate. 

 

ENTER PIC EDITOR: Vin, I sincerely apologise for all the trouble you're facing. If he wants to do 24, it is quite obvious you will also do 24. Thank you for being flexible through all this. It is ridiculous that you're going to start shooting tomorrow and frame rates are still being discussed. 

 

Me: Well, i asked for a test shoot. Oh, that was asking for too much. When i asked to be flown in two weeks before shoot to check out the locations, I was told by the Producer: "Why are you asking to be shown locations so early? This is not standard practice." 

 

Me: Well, what is standard practice? See the locations 12 hours before the shoot? 

 

Producer: We'll get you in a day before the shoot and you can see it all then. 

 

Me: Correct me if i am wrong here - you don't want to spend on an air ticket and a day of hotel room - is that it? 

 

She: Yes, of course!

 

Me says nothing. 

 

Later, we end up two days before shoot, entire gear, and sound team. I bill production for these two days - full charge including equipment. They have been PENNY-WISE and POUND-FOOLISH - now having to pay FULL rates for the two days rather than pay just for my time, if i had been called in earlier. 

 

 

LOCATIONS: 

 

Main location is an ancient villa - surrounded by other habited spaces. I was told earlier by the Director 'Oh, it is so quiet out here, you're gonna love it". In reality - on a daily basis production and direction team had to spend a lot of time and effort to get the "neighbors" to stay quiet, keep their TV sets down, etc etc.

 

 

PRODUCER

First day of shoot - she realizes there is a professional sound crew and a solid equipment setup on location. Maybe something she had not seen before. 

Result - she stays away from sound department for the rest of the shoot. 

 

 

To the OP's situation: AS many have already answered, I too would like to add - MOST "PRODUCERS" on these kind of projects have NO clue about what a professional feature film production sound team and the equipment is like. 

 

--end of story--

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I wish it was that easy to deal with for me.

 

When i am doing TV work ( Non-Fiction, Documentary, Reality and Magasine ), there is ABSOLUTLY not chance for a boom op there, at most, if the show is complicated with lots of wireless, i can get an A2, but wireless count has to be over 8+ for that.

 

For Fiction work, i don't have a resume of 50 films so i can only comment on what i did so far.  For big TV series, i can get a boom op, no question asked and if i make my case, a second Boom op if needed.  For films, even if i don't agree with the practice, i am offered shows that will heavily question my need for a boom op, which usually end up being me making a case for a boom op on the most complicated days, which usually ends up being less then 20% of the shoot days. 

 

Here in Quebec, we are going thru a crisis in the industry, our prime minister ( our mini-me version of Bush Jr, so basically a serious morons!!! ), is cutting in all aspect of culture and since pretty much all funding for our industry is goverment funds, we are feeling the pinch like crazy!!!  

 

Thanks

 

Pascal

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Same here in Ontario, Pascal. Productions are offering ridiculously low rates for Lifetime movies and the like, and indie features are off the map low. I've been turning them down and concentrating onTV, docs and corporates. Crew people are starting to leave Ottawa. Thank god I'm getting close to Wal Mart greeter age. Cleanup on aisle 3!

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