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justanross

Invention, innovation and patent law

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The factory is cranking on them, more units are on their way, should be available at the end of the month.

Tom,

It now says on the website that the Tascam DR-10's are not available in the US. Why? I assume that means Canada as well.

I really want a couple. How can I get my hands on some?

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According to my conversations with Zaxcom, Tascam, due to possible patent infringements, has agreed to pull the DR-10CS in the US until further notice. Tascam has not stated that position to its dealers, to my knowledge. Regardless, that should not affect availability in Canada at this time.

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The JuicedLink recorder is not available yet anywhere. It was first shown at NAB and maybe they haven't even produced it yet. It is possible, of course, that they too are concerned about possible patent infringement.

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According to my conversations with Zaxcom, Tascam, due to possible patent infringements, has agreed to pull the DR-10CS in the US until further notice. Tascam has not stated that position to its dealers, to my knowledge. Regardless, that should not affect availability in Canada at this time.

Le sigh. I will have to find another way to get my hands on one.

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Le sigh. I will have to find another way to get my hands on one.

I see they are available in The Netherlands, shipping in 4 workdays after order. www.baxshop.nl does international orders, and is a trusted seller.

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I see they are available in The Netherlands, shipping in 4 workdays after order. www.baxshop.nl does international orders, and is a trusted seller.

Ohhhhhhh....thank you.

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Any retailer's in Canada selling these?  I didn't see them listed on Tascam's Canada site, or any of the other newer recorders, so I was guessing their site it just out of date.

 

Lawsuit was the only thing that came to mind when I saw these being discontinued in the US.  I'm not lawyer, but since these just seem to be re-housed recorders with new connectors, I don't see what patent is being infringed upon.  Especially if it is only applied to the DR-10c but not the DR-10x.

 

If it is the case, it would be nice to know if it is Tascam & Juiced Link vs mystery party, or if it is Tascam vs Juiced link.

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"it would be nice to know if it is Tascam & Juiced Link vs mystery party, or if it is Tascam vs Juiced link"

 

Not a "mystery party" --- the Tascam DR-10CS infringes a patent held by Zaxcom. I'm sure there will be a settlement between these two companies but we will not know the final outcome until sometime in the future.

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I am wondering why Tascam has infringes patent from Zaxcom.

It's just a very small recorder. So Tascam has infringes the "size"?

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I am wondering why Tascam has infringes patent from Zaxcom.

It's just a very small recorder. So Tascam has infringes the "size"?

 

And this point I feel (again, not a lawyer) is important.  Somehow the DR-10c breaks a patent but hte DR-10x doesn't?  It seems like the recorder is the same for those two models.

 

So is it the passthrough?  Or the connection (Lectro TA5f, Sennheiser...)?  Something else?

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vincent: " Also subject to copyright infringement...? "

no, we are discussing patent infringement, which is significantly different.

And... Patent infringement is what I mean. Thanks for the correction.

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vincent:" A lot of "DSLR" shooters use the tiny Zoom H1 for years as a poor man's Zaxcom. "

the devil is in the details...

what exactly has Zaxcom patented, vs. what exactly TASCAM (or Zoom) is making...

we seem to be in "Lawyer Country" with this...

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Up to lawyers yes to fight this out. Up to the general public to give an opinion about these patent wars, which somehow occurs more in the USA than elsewhere in the world...

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what exactly has Zaxcom patented, vs. what exactly TASCAM (or Zoom) is making...

we seem to be in "Lawyer Country" with this...

We don't know the extent of the Zaxcom patent and there is no way for us to speculate in any manner that could determine the outcome. It is clear that Zaxcom feels their patent has been infringed and Tascam has clearly dome the right thing pending the determination of a settlement. We will have to wait and see.

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Up to lawyers yes to fight this out. Up to the general public to give an opinion about this patent wars, which somehow occurs more in the USA than elsewhere in the world...

Yes, it does happen more in the US, possibly because we have more companies that produce innovative items that are patent worthy. Of course the other reason is that we have lots and lots of lawyers and lots of people and companies that love to sue. I remember when Microsoft tried to copyright the word "windows" and if any other software company tried to use the word, even in documentation, Microsoft would sue. Apple, of course, has been known to file for patents that are as broad (and absurd) as fling for a patent for any mobile device that has a centrally located front facing button.

 

I think in the case of Zaxcom and Tascam, we are not seeing any kind of frivolous lawsuit...  and again, we are in Lawyer Country and speculating about something where we really have none of the relevant details.

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Possibly because we have more companies that produce innovative items that are patent worthy.

True that

Of course the other reason is that we have lots and lots of lawyers and lots of people and companies that love to sue.

True that

I think in the case of Zaxcom and Tascam, we are not seeing any kind of frivolous lawsuit...  and again, we are in Lawyer Country and speculating about something where we really have none of the relevant details.

and true that...

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The JuicedLink recorder is not available yet anywhere. It was first shown at NAB and maybe they haven't even produced it yet. It is possible, of course, that they too are concerned about possible patent infringement.

Talking about juicedlink;

http://nofilmschool.com/2014/11/juicedlinks-little-darling-gets-wireless-control-capture-audio

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If you are super curious, and bored.... There are sites that will look up patents filed by a company and/or person. Offhand Apple rumor sites have used them for years to speculate what is being developed. It wouldn't be hard to find the Zaxcom patents. Not that those patents are secret, but it would give the description of what mojo is protected. The lawyer part comes up in what is infringement, and we know that can be hotly debated (aka costing both sides a ton of $$$).

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If any of you really care and/or are really bored, check out posts 16 and 18 on the first page of this discussion for links to a bunch of Zaxcom and Tascam patents. No idea if these lists are complete, but they're good starting places...

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Vincent: " Up to the general public to give an opinion about these patent wars," 

not really

 

" which somehow occurs more in the USA than elsewhere in the world... "

maybe, but in this case the issue is with USA patent(s).

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Yes, it does happen more in the US, possibly because we have more companies that produce innovative items that are patent worthy. Of course the other reason is that we have lots and lots of lawyers and lots of people and companies that love to sue. I remember when Microsoft tried to copyright the word "windows" and if any other software company tried to use the word, even in documentation, Microsoft would sue. Apple, of course, has been known to file for patents that are as broad (and absurd) as fling for a patent for any mobile device that has a centrally located front facing button.

I think in the case of Zaxcom and Tascam, we are not seeing any kind of frivolous lawsuit... and again, we are in Lawyer Country and speculating about something where we really have none of the relevant details.

I wonder if it just gets covered in the news more, or we know because we follow Apple news. Apple now patents everything because they famously got held to the coals with the iPod. In 2006 Apple had to pay Creative $100 million because creative had some pretty broad patents covering "portable digital music player". That was a lot of money to Apple back then, and Jobs reportedly took that as a hard earned lesson. That seemed to psychologically hit them harder than the lawsuit against Microsoft for windows based operating systems that Apple settled for a pretty low amount.

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