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Sonosax SX-R4+


pvanstry

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Hello,

Yes, SONOSAX mic amplifiers are close to the minimum self noise. But too many parameters are needet to made a easy comparison without having the 2 machines on the same bench, and to use on the same conditions, settings, reserve before clipping, etc...

If you have the chance to come here with your device, I will personaly take my time to do a comparison. Otherwise, it is just impossible, especially with digital recorder..

Jacques Sax

 

 

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On 1/17/2016 at 6:24 PM, JAX said:

Hello,

Yes, SONOSAX mic amplifiers are close to the minimum self noise. But too many parameters are needet to made a easy comparison without having the 2 machines on the same bench, and to use on the same conditions, settings, reserve before clipping, etc...

If you have the chance to come here with your device, I will personaly take my time to do a comparison. Otherwise, it is just impossible, especially with digital recorder..

Jacques Sax

 

 

Hello Monsieure Sax,

Does R4+ have the fader function yet?

dr.

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On 13/1/2016 at 8:15 PM, Arn said:

Hi everyone,

I have been using my deva 5.8 pre-amps on set the last couple of years, but sometimes got annoyed by pushing the self-noise up with silent dialogue-scenes.

Using the mix-8/ loving the fact of unplugging 1 cable when having to go in the bag and using the zaxcom wireless, i thought about buying external pre-amps going digital into the deva. (avoiding a big mixer-table,lots of cables)

I bougth a sonosax sx-r4+ one month ago, loving the workflow of the machine, but gave it back to the dealer after 1 day since it gave much more self-noise then the deva itself.

My dealer made tests comparing to a SD744 and came to the same conclusion. Communicated these results to sonosax-suisse whom had comments about how these tests were made, but at the end confirmed that these are normal sx-R4+ results.

 

Anyone having the same experiences with the noise-level of this machine? (heard it are other pre-amps than the big sonosax-tables)

 

Anyone other advice on 4 good preamps? (my kind dealer probably wants to retake the sonosax sx-R4+ since it totally lost his purpose for me)

 

 

(this one day using the sonosax on set i got les noise on my zaxcom-sanken-lavs then the sonosax-mkh50-boom 20cm's above the talent's head)

cant believe the sonosax-response...

 

greetings from belgium

arne

 

 

 

 

SX-R4+ noise:

We receive your unit today, and started to investigate. Our first mesurements show that your unit is within the specifications and its "self noise" - as you name it - is close to the minimum theoretical value (extremely low)

The SX-R4+ is designed to offer a dynamic range of 135dB. Depending on the sound level to be recorded, the kind of microphone being used and its placement one can choose to set the primary input gain to either 0dB or 20dB as follow: 

To make use of the full dynamic range when recording high level sounds, the primary input stage must be set to 0dB of Gain; the recording level is fine adjusted (optimized) by means of the rotary fader.

To record low level sounds such as ambiences, whisper or murmur the primary gain must be set to 20 dB, then fine adjusted by means of the rotary fader. This primary gain "shifts" the overall recording range and consequently improve the signal to noise ratio by approx the same amount (20dB)

This is a bit complex to explain here, and we have to make a application note to clarify this important point.

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Hello,

Faders function: is implemented on the V2.0. Actually, this version is on test with our beta testers. We hope to release this version in 2 to 4 weeks.

Ambisonic monitoring: will be implemented in future versions.

Noise: the problem described is solved, it was the 20dB gain not switched...

All the best,

Jacques Sax

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On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 5:57 AM, Erkal Taskin said:
3 hours ago, JAX said:

Hello,

Faders function: is implemented on the V2.0. Actually, this version is on test with our beta testers. We hope to release this version in 2 to 4 weeks.

Ambisonic monitoring: will be implemented in future versions.

Noise: the problem described is solved, it was the 20dB gain not switched...

All the best,

Jacques Sax

 

What is the fader function?

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11 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

What is the fader function?

It's currently not possible to record pre-fade isos or control any levels of tracks not assigned to the xlr inputs with the faders on the front.

With the 5pin output and this it should be a proper mixer/recorder.

Look forward to the ambisonic monitoring. A format monitoring would be very useful, allowing the dynamic range on the r4+ front end to be used with mics like the sps200

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9 hours ago, Richard Thomas said:

It's currently not possible to record pre-fade isos or control any levels of tracks not assigned to the xlr inputs with the faders on the front.

With the 5pin output and this it should be a proper mixer/recorder.

Look forward to the ambisonic monitoring. A format monitoring would be very useful, allowing the dynamic range on the r4+ front end to be used with mics like the sps200

Hey Richard, sorry I am confused now. Are you still not able to mix into a separate track? 

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1 hour ago, Erkal Taskin said:

So you can basically only route everything to 2 tracks but there is no fader adjustment, is that correct?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can route any combination of the tracks to any output.   The Mix tracks are just 2 additional tracks that can be assigned internally from a combination of other tracks. The 4 knobs on the front are currently fixed to the gain of whatever's set as the 4 XLR ins (although this should change in v2.0).  

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So you can basically only route everything to 2 tracks but there is no fader adjustment, is that correct?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can route any combination of the tracks to any output.   The Mix tracks are just 2 additional tracks that can be assigned internally from a combination of other tracks. The 4 knobs on the front are currently fixed to the gain of whatever's set as the 4 XLR ins (although this should change in v2.0).  

Got it thanks.

Any news on the release of v2.0 then? :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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On 23/12/2015 at 3:03 PM, Richard Thomas said:

Only info I've got is on here:
"SONOSAX SX-R4+
Announcing firmware version 2.0 with exciting new features:
- user interface enhancements
- faders (vs input gains) operation
- added recording capabilities (24bits, mix tracks on SD2)
- 4 channels output upcoming option board support
- automatic sound report generation
- many stability & performance improvements

All the SONOSAX team wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

"

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Hi all,

I've been working with the v2.0 Beta firmware on a doc shoot for two weeks. The R4+ ran very stable, even in extremely damp, hot and freezing conditions.

We're still ironing out a few things, but here's what you may expect to see in the new firmware:

- The four knobs can be assigned as faders for any track and configured with a range of -60 to +12 dB or -60 to +24 dB

- HTML sound report, automatically updated with every recording

- Individual track colors

- Shortcuts assignable to every push button for short and long presses and to the line 5 & 6 knobs for the raised and recessed positions

- Shortcuts assignable to three display areas on the lower third area of the main display

- Screen lock

- Headphones lock

- User-defined filetag numbers

- Timezone support

- 8 user settings

- 32 or 24 bits per sample

- Meters day and night modes

- User-defined Meters range

- User-defined Meters orange and red threshold levels

- Mix tracks on the SD2 card

- User-defined notes list

- User-defined track names list

- Notes list in the Tag Last Take screen

- 10 positions alphanumerical Scene name

And I've probably missed a few other things...

 

Cheers,

Jürg

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48 minutes ago, jlempen said:

Hi all,

I've been working with the v2.0 Beta firmware on a doc shoot for two weeks. The R4+ ran very stable, even in extremely damp, hot and freezing conditions.

We're still ironing out a few things, but here's what you may expect to see in the new firmware:

- The four knobs can be assigned as faders for any track and configured with a range of -60 to +12 dB or -60 to +24 dB

 

Thanks very much, Jurg

To check when the knobs are in 'fader mode' just to double check, do they mute at zero?

Also is the gain altered on the track screen?  Does it default to level when you open the track settings?- if it doesn't this could make it a faster operation when track screens are set as shortcuts [push track button, adjust on knob right of screen]

best

Richard

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Hey Richard,

When in "fader mode", the knobs mute the signal in the mix channels with the faders at zero, yes.

And in "fader mode", the gain settings button in the input screen is disabled and replaced with a gain value which is selected by default. So yes, in "fader mode", you simply click on the track fader button and adjust the gain with the encoder knob right of the screen.

My default setup thus looks like this: fader mode enabled to "-60 .. +12 dB" and mix tracks volume set to +12 dB with an attenuation of 1.5 dB. Default boom mics (Schoeps CCM41 & CCM8) gain set to +50 dB and headphones volume at -9 dB for a pair of Sony MDR-7506. I set the meters range to 40 dB with the orange and red thresholds at -20 and -10 respectively.

With this setup, my ISOs are recorded at around -20 dB FS and my mix is about 8-10 dB hotter with the fader knobs in the 2 o'clock position, just the way I like it.

I'm still experimenting a bit with my gain structure, but with the above settings, I'm mixing exactly as I used to mix on the SD 302 or 442 back in the days. Feels comfortable and the orange and red meters kick in at the same levels as the three gain LED's I loved so much on the original SX-R4.

Best,

Jürg

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2 hours ago, jlempen said:

Hey Richard,

When in "fader mode", the knobs mute the signal in the mix channels with the faders at zero, yes.

And in "fader mode", the gain settings button in the input screen is disabled and replaced with a gain value which is selected by default. So yes, in "fader mode", you simply click on the track fader button and adjust the gain with the encoder knob right of the screen.

My default setup thus looks like this: fader mode enabled to "-60 .. +12 dB" and mix tracks volume set to +12 dB with an attenuation of 1.5 dB. Default boom mics (Schoeps CCM41 & CCM8) gain set to +50 dB and headphones volume at -9 dB for a pair of Sony MDR-7506. I set the meters range to 40 dB with the orange and red thresholds at -20 and -10 respectively.

With this setup, my ISOs are recorded at around -20 dB FS and my mix is about 8-10 dB hotter with the fader knobs in the 2 o'clock position, just the way I like it.

I'm still experimenting a bit with my gain structure, but with the above settings, I'm mixing exactly as I used to mix on the SD 302 or 442 back in the days. Feels comfortable and the orange and red meters kick in at the same levels as the three gain LED's I loved so much on the original SX-R4.

Best,

Jürg

Great- thanks very much

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Thanks for this useful info, Jurg. If I may ask a couple of questions:

If you were using the 6 analogue inputs, or more, how would you adjust the fader levels for output to the stereo mix on the tracks not assigned to faders 1-4? And are there easy/quick ways of assigning tracks to L and R of the stereo mix?

Are there limiters on the record busses, the mix bus and the output, and if so do they sound clean and transparent?

 

thanks

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Macrecorder,

If you were using the 6 analogue inputs, you could still use the two little Line 5 & 6 pots to adjust the levels of the line inputs going into the mix tracks, but then the levels of the respective ISO tracks would change as well. This is due to the hardware design, as the two small pots are not digital encoders but hardware gains for the line inputs. I haven't had the opportunity to test the R4+ coupled with the SX-AD8+ yet, but I believe that the 8 pots on the AD8+ will be assignable as fader pots as well.

We could imagine implementing additional layers for the four main pots to control more tracks. I'll put this on my suggestions list.

Assigning tracks to L and R of the mix tracks is done in the mix setup page with a matrix similar to the one for the headphones setup and there are four user-defined mix setups available, so you could have different setups and switch between them to quickly switch tracks from L to C to R. I believe that this is possible even while a recording is taking place, but I'll have to verify that.

There's no limiter at any stage at the moment, but a software limiter may be implemented on the headphones and mix/output buses in the future. In my recent experience working with the R4+ in the field, I haven't managed to clip the inputs at all, but I imagine that the headphones and mix/output buses could overload when multiple sources are combined on the mix bus. I'm still looking into this with the SX team.

Cheers,

Jürg

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Thanks, Jurg, very useful. For me, I would need the ability to mix more than 4 tracks to the stereo out, but i thought maybe it was done via the touch screen and encoder knob. Also, I am surprised at the lack of limiters, since in most jobs there will always be some surprise peaks , and it is better to have a safety net (although if I am transmitting to camera, I have the transmitter limiters to cover that). I do appreciate that with the double AD system you cannot clip the inputs but presumably you could still clip the record tracks? However, it still looks like a great machine, I will await developments and see how version 2 plays out.

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