ramallo Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Actually, a pure pressure gradient is a figure of eight, but that's beside the point. Other than using two capsules, I am not familiar with a way to make a pressure gradient mic have an omni pattern. Maybe someone else is? Could also be some sort of typo... Probably I was a bit schematic, and causes a misunderstood Gradient = fig8 (Is obvious that a different gradient in one of the sides is a pressure difference), a lot of microphones with one membrane such as the AKG CK94. Pressure is an omnidirectional microphone (Depends of his size), only reacts to the pressure (On one of the sides of his membrane (front)) If you have two microphones, one omnidirectional and other fig8 and you mix both microphones (Coincident technique), you get a combined response (pressure gradient) and performs like a cardioid microphone (F.e. this is the core of the ambisonics or the Schoeps Polarflex). A pressure/gradient is a cardioid (react whit pressure differences (front incidence) and a differences of pressure between sides of his membrane) http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/categories/polarflex See specifications "principle of operation" http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=129&item=24061#specifications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's true that a cardioid mic is a pressure gradient, but not every pressure gradient is a cardioid. As I said before, a pure pressure gradient is a fig 8. To achieve a cardioid polar pattern, something else needs to be done to the mic, like adding a network of inlets to delay and cancel sound hitting the back of the mic. But there is no gradient mic, Ramallo. And the pressure gradient is not a mixture of the two. What you describe as the gradient mic, is actually called a pressure gradient. You gave the right explanation in brackets, except you say 'difference' instead of gradient. So the Rode mic could be a cardioid, a wide cardioid... Or they just mis-typed on their website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 It's true that a cardioid mic is a pressure gradient, but not every pressure gradient is a cardioid. As I said before, a pure pressure gradient is a fig 8. To achieve a cardioid polar pattern, something else needs to be done to the mic. But there is no gradient mic, Ramallo. And the pressure gradient is not a mixture of the two. What you describe as the gradient mic, is actually called a pressure gradient. You said it yourself in brackets, except you say 'difference' instead of gradient. So the Rode mic could be a cardioid, a wide cardioid... Or they just mis-typed on their website Ok, as you want I said pressure gradient, but because is pretty obvious the fig 8 is called gradient (of course a pure pressure gradient is a 8 , but because is pretty obvious the cardioid is called pressure-gradient Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 Ok, as you want I said pressure gradient, but is pretty obvious the fig 8 is called gradient (of course a pure pressure gradient is a 8 , but because is pretty obvious the cardioid is called pressure-gradient Cheers It's not about what I want. I'm still not quite sure what you're saying above, but both cardioid and fig 8 are pressure gradients. Anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottenCarcass Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 When I saw this, I immediately thought of the AT System 10. What with the ever shrinking spectrum, the day is soon upon us when it's 2.4 or nothing, and so I must admit, I'm paying more attention to this. I'd like to see a decent comparison between the Rode and the AT, because I honestly see having to get something like this very soon, just hope they'll shrink this a bit because right now that shicks humongous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 but both cardioid and fig 8 are pressure gradients. Anyway Sorry no, a fig 8 is a real pressure gradient, a cardioid is a mix between pressure gradient and pressure microphone. Maybe a dash could resolve this misconception Pressure gradient= fig 8 Pressure gradient-pressure = cardioid http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep00/articles/direction.htm This excess of pressure is the reason for avoid the use of "pressure gradient" for fig 8 (just gradient) and "pressure gradient-pressure" for cardioid (just pressure gradient such as you can see on DPA web) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berniebeaudry Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I've had trouble getting permission to use my Zaxcom ERXs in college football stadiums. I also can't use my Lectro D-4 in the 900 mhz band. They're afraid of interfering with coach coms and internet apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karri Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 So the Rode mic could be a cardioid, a wide cardioid... Or they just mis-typed on their website After moving to DPA lavs, I have relegated one of my Rode lavs to mostly video game/Skype mic status (it has its uses in the field as well, every now and then) so it's constantly plugged to the interface right in front of me, so I did a quick test to be extra sure! Twisting the mic in every direction while keeping the end of it at the same point produces almost no signs of any kind of directivity, just maybe the tiniest bit of high end dropping out when the mic is facing in the opposite direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Maybe a dash could resolve this misconception Pressure gradient= fig 8 Pressure gradient-pressure = cardioid Not really, no. Maybe a "and" would help. A pressure and a pressure gradient can together make a cardioid polar pattern, that's true. But as the SOS article is explaining, you need two diaphragms or even two mics to achieve that. They also talk about how to make a cardioid with a single diaphragm, but they are not saying which type that is. Aaaanyway, the Rode lav very likely does not have two diaphragms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Twisting the mic in every direction while keeping the end of it at the same point produces almost no signs of any kind of directivity, just maybe the tiniest bit of high end dropping out when the mic is facing in the opposite direction.I'm pretty sure the Rode lav is omni directional. Must be a typo in the Rode website then, unless someone comed up with a better explanation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Maybe someone at Rode just thought writing pressure gradient in the specs sounds better than only pressure. I also don't think that their lavs are cardioids or even fig8s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Maybe it's a different mic altogether.. the usual RODE Lavaliere generally sells in the USA for around $240. The whole new 2.4GHz system will allegedly go for $400. Does that mean the system is only worth $160 w/o the mic? If that's the case, a system worth $160 (USD retail) wouldn't likely be much good... if "you get what you pay for" applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Not really, no. Maybe a "and" would help. A pressure and a pressure gradient can together make a cardioid polar pattern, that's true. But as the SOS article is explaining, you need two diaphragms or even two mics to achieve that. They also talk about how to make a cardioid with a single diaphragm, but they are not saying which type that is. Aaaanyway, the Rode lav very likely does not have two diaphragms. No Constantin, a regular cardioid with one membrane acts like a pressure microphone and a gradient pressure microphone at same time. This is the reason of his polar response, a pure pressure gradient never will act like a cardioid (null at 180º), need the pressure part for get a null at 180º (The same effect as two membranes like SOS example). If you cover the cancellatión labyrinth of a cardioid, this mic will works like a pure pressure and becomes omnidirectional (Shows his pure pressure part). http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar07/articles/micpatterns.htm http://www.excelsior-audio.com/Publications/MicDirectivity/MicDirectivity.html This is the very clever design of Schoeps (The last images) http://www.phy.duke.edu/~dtl/136126/restrict/after/25/intro.html http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/mk5/overview Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 No Constantin, ... guys, really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramallo Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 guys, really? Not really, sorry for hijacking the thread Suso Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 No Constantin, a regular cardioid with one membrane acts like a pressure microphone and a gradient pressure microphone at same time. This is the reason of his polar response, a pure pressure gradient never will act like a cardioid (null at 180º), need the pressure part for get a null at 180º (The same effect as two membranes like SOS example). If you cover the cancellatión labyrinth of a cardioid, this mic will works like a pure pressure and becomes omnidirectional (Shows his pure pressure part). If you change the mechanics of the mic, then yes, one can become the other. The two principles are not radically different. As you were linking Schoeps, they are exactly showing how you transform a pressure transducer into a pressure gradient. In Omni position that very mic is a pressure transducer, if you switch it to cardioid position that same mic becomes a pressure gradient. Click on the link you provided to the Schoeps site. There, click in download and read the Colette brochure. In the section about capsules, you will find that they agree with my above statement. It's mostly a question of naming things. And I'm sorry, but a cardioid is a pressure gradient transducer and not a pressure pressure-gradient and an omni is a pressure transducer. guys, really? Why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 Maybe it's a different mic altogether.. the usual RODE Lavaliere generally sells in the USA for around $240. The whole new 2.4GHz system will allegedly go for $400. Does that mean the system is only worth $160 w/o the mic? If that's the case, a system worth $160 (USD retail) wouldn't likely be much good... if "you get what you pay for" applies. yeah i was wondering that too. i compared the rode lav vs a sennheiser G3 kit mic, a DPA and a cos-11 on a G3 transmitter and through direct XLR with phantom adapter. liked the DPA best, but the rode was only slightly "worse" and about on par with the cos-11 to my ears. the G3 kit mic was quite a bit worse again. haven't used it a lot so can't comment about durability but i liked that the rode is easy to adapt to different wireless and has a cheap phantom adapter available so it feels like a flexible good backup mic to me. would be frat if they could include it as a stock mic, but as you say makes you wonder about the cost of the rest of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think the mic that's included with the wireless link kit is the Smartlav and not their regular lav. This is a much cheaper mic. The Rode link page is a bit contradictory about this though, as are the pictures. But it does here (near the bottom) say that included in the kit is the Smartlav: http://www.rodemic.com/wireless The smartlav, btw, is also supposed to be a pressure gradient with an omni pattern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattRuth Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 It looks like its not so clear which rode mic will be included with the kit. The rode site pictures a smartlav (original i think, as its all black, not the grey connector the new smartlav+ have), but if you click the link, it takes you to the info on the full rode lav, which suggests maybe it is the rode lav. then again, maybe its something all together different (something like the smartlav capsule with a locking 3.5 connector?) Time will tell i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anwar Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's a different lav from the smart lav that they have according to their site if you click more info about the mic. It's the mic with easy interchangeable plugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 The smartlav, btw, is also supposed to be a pressure gradient with an omni pattern as is the Rode Lavalier, according to Rode's specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 liked the DPA best, but the rode was only slightly "worse" and about on par with the cos-11 to my ears. I tested the Rode lav and while the whole connector stuff is great and it seems well made and stable, my impression was that you can only really use it in plain sight (which is also apparently it's main intended use). Once a thin layer of textile is between the lav and the speaker it sounds very dull. So in the end, you still get what you pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 It's a different lav from the smart lav that they have according to their site if you click more info about the mic. It's the mic with easy interchangeable plugs. yeah true, the specs are identical and the photos look like it too. in a way that makes the whole system an amazing value, but as rick said it seems that the wireless part must be built pretty cheap. still, might get one as a low cost backup if it it works. chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 as is the Rode Lavalier, according to Rode's specs. Absolutely, I didn't mean it as contradiction. Hence my "also". I agree about the sound of the Rode Lav. To that end, I think their headset mic is more usefull for its given purpose, as is the Pinmic, which makes hiding in plain sight much easier, even on scripted stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismedr Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 I tested the Rode lav and while the whole connector stuff is great and it seems well made and stable, my impression was that you can only really use it in plain sight (which is also apparently it's main intended use). Once a thin layer of textile is between the lav and the speaker it sounds very dull. So in the end, you still get what you pay for. yeah, for me it was 350EUR for a DPA plus 100EUR for an XLR connector vs 250EUR for the rode system, and since i use the mic only rarely i couldn't justify the extra cost. if it was my main mic i'd go for something better for sure. chris ps: looks like you can get the rode lav for 170EUR over here now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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