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Nagra Stories Sound-men won’t ever tell


JBond

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Thank you very much, Jeff.  That is probably the best compliment I have ever received from anybody for anything I ever did in my life.  I'm very proud to be able to post amongst what I think are some of the most famous Soundmen of all time, including yourself.  As always,  I thank you for the opportunity to post my collection and my thoughts for others to see and to be able to post without restrictions or time limits for corrections that are truly needed for me to be able to post long and involved posts of pictures and content.
JWSOUND is a very well-established, viewed, and respected site around the world because of you, Jeff Wexler.  I'm humbled to be a very small part of JWSOUND.

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On the previous page I reposted a story from 2016 about The mystery of the Yellow recorder this is just a part of it.

 

WHY did I sell this Roberts 3 in reel to reel with the 67 World Series recorded on it. That was the only thing that was recorded with this machine put back in the box and sold not knowing the recording was on the tape until I bought it a listened to it.  I know why I sold it I wanted money to buy more expensive Nagra's. 

 

If You guys have the time click the video and listen to a little bit of this tape, the sounds, the commercials, the crack of the bat, the crowd, the announcer.  Damm I never should have let that go.

I'm not really a big baseball fan but doesn't that bring back memories.  You don't hear sounds like this today.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Another was the 1967 World Series.  I bought a nice little Roberts 3 inch reel to reel recorder with the 1967 World Series and commercials from the day, really interesting but I sold that recorder and the tape, maybe I should have kept it.
Here is a video I made to sell it.  Recorded Tape can be very Interesting if you have the time to listen,  it’s a recording of what was happening back in that moment, in time. 
It was the only time this recorder was used, used to record the 1967 World Series then put back in its box. The recorder as you see it is now in a technology museum in Texas. 
Here is the video I made late last year of the recorder and tape playing, to sell on eBay. I had the recorder for years. (another one I should have kept.

Listen to a part of the 1967 World Series Someone recorded on their brand new Roberts recorder.
 

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  • 3 weeks later...

James:

A little late to this post, but just wanted to give kudos for all your efforts at preserving this technology, and all the stories and documentation that goes along with it.

 

Still have most (but not all) of the Nagra's I've owned and used (along with a couple of Stellavox's). Just can't bring myself to part with them...

 

Congrats again on a great collection and dedication to preservation.

 

 

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Hello, nice to have you post here on Nagra Stories, all the way from Finland. 

You have a very clean and nice looking, 1966 Nagra III there.

1966 was the last year before the new up-dated meter design as shown below.  I always like the older design as yours better. 

 

 

From 1958 to 1966 meter design,  Pre 1967 

 

 

F5eh1KD.jpg

 

 

 

Post 1966 Meter Design 

 

 

WtIuh6C.jpg

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Yes, older model is more attractive. My oldie is in fully working condition and is used on live gigs where my mates are playing. It goes well with my EMT 930, 1956 (!). I am looking for a wide track stereo model, I have one in sight that I am going to see. I guess they go for 1500 to 2000 € no matter how you bargain, right? This unit is serviced four years ago, rec head changed, I know the person who did it and made also measurements for this particular example. If anyone knows stereo models for sale, please let me know.

IMG_0016.JPG

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Hi Jackal

 

Would you mind deleting the full "quote" of the Yellow Story.

It makes the thread too long and confusing to have such a long post duplicated again.

Thank You

 

The one without the S is older and worth more. I would not sell mine that low. 

I remember showing my brother the Ficord's years ago and he said he wouldn't pay 5.00 for one.

So it's all in the person who wants to own one whats its worth. I believe the plain 101 was never sold in the US

The 101 was changed to the S for the US market to match the more common speed used here in the US at the time.

 

I do not have anymore 101 belts but that should not deter you from picking up that nice recorder made by Stellavox for Ficord.

 

This ebay seller has all types of NEW replacement belts and has the Ficord 101 belts. If you didn't know this already. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-BELT-Stellavox-Ficord-101-Dictation-Tape-Player-Recorder-ser-SX2935/153011018991?hash=item23a02adcef:g:pb8AAOSwRQla9b0l

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Happy Friday Nagra nerds...I came across a cool thing that may interest some of you:

 

 The Complex Sessions by Neil Young & Crazy Horse from 1994.

 

I have the Laserdisc and the beautiful image on the cover caught my eye.

 

It is a wonderful performance captured by John Hanlon on a Nagra IV or 4.2 (look at the photo and you tell me). Directed by Jonathan Demme with DP Tak Fujimoto. It looks and sounds great!

 

Enjoy the photos of the cover and the link to more info regarding the sessions.

 

 

IMG_5098.jpg

IMG_5099.jpg

IMG_5095.JPG

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It would be cool if this were available on r2r for those of us who use this format in our hifi systems. There is a fair amount of pure analog music available on r2r but it is mostly jazz and classical. Commercially available pop and rock tapes made 30-60 years ago are generally expensive and fragile. 

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Hi,

let me join the discussion, which I find extremely helpful. I posted on a Nagra Serial no for 1960: B 60 426, but I have never seen it appear here.

 

Today I would like to ask about how to charge a Nagra III.

 

I can remember I found a quotation, saying the Nagras were made to be run by batteries, only this way they reach their full potential.

To my understanding/ feeling, this is true.

To run a Nagra III on batteries, this leaves out any hum you get from the psu, the sound is as good as it can be.

 

But - how to charge the batteries properly?

The ATN-ATU, which you are supposed for charging, says it needed 16 hours to charge 2,5 Ah.

I put a set of 12 batteries in it, with 10 Ah each.

Now - how long will it take to charge the set?

4 x 16 h = 64 h?

 

I wouldn't mind to charge the batteries this long, but, can I kind of "overload" the batteries?

The ATN-ATU is an old-fashioned device, it does not have any electronic in it.

Does the little flower-like sensor give any hint once the batteries are charged?

When I connect ATN and ATN-ATU to the Nagra III, the blade shits for some degrees, makes 4 segments look white, means it is operating.

Will it switch back, once the charging is over?

 

Of course, I could take out all the 12 batteries, and charge them in a modern charger - but, I would try the more elegant way, and let the batteries stay in the unit, as it was practiced before, in the 60ties, obviously.

 

Thank you for all hints.

 

ps: concerning Nagra 4.2 / 4.2-S:

Some ATNs have a charger included. They have a little light for status "charging", which seems to be switched off by the ATN, once the process is finished.

With a Nagra 4.2 and a orig. ATN-unit as psu/ charger you should disconnect the Nagra 4.2 from any other unit, otherwise you will get a shortcut, which can blow your fuse inside.

This fuse is a little bit tricky to find - some older models have this fuse at the right side, once you open the front plate.

The later models have the fuse inside the batteriy-compartment, Kudelsky used the fuses as "pins", opposite the fixed pins with springs.

Since I for various reasons many times blew the fuse in a Nagra 4.2 I replaced the soldered fuse by a fuse-holder, where the fuse can go in.

I made a video of how to put this in the Nagra 4.2.

 

Best wishes from Luebeck/ Germany!

Matthias

 

 

 

 

DSC09784.JPG

DSC09788.JPG

DSC09799.JPG

 

 

 

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I used the Nagra 4.2 on about 40 movies, I had an ATN unit to power it on mains if necessary, but I never had any sort of charger. When using the Nagra on batteries alone, I always used disposable alkaline "D" cells  --- this was common practice in the US. When on the cart (which was actually most of the time) I had a cart power supply the provided 18 vdc for the Nagra (would run for several days before I had to charge the cart battery). So, bottom line, I cannot help you in any waty regarding using rechargeable in the Nagra.

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Jeff, about sound for movies I can contribute some details:

 

The series "Der Kommissar" with Eric Ode, were made using a Nagra for the sound: some years ago a Nagra 4.2 was offered, with a tape from the set still on the unit.

Some weeks ago I got some tapes, being sold as "leader tapes", but turned out to be the master tapes for the series "Ein Fall für Zwei", with Klaus Theo Gärtner and Günter Strack in the beginning, 1981 ff.

With the tapes were the orig. boxes, and a little dokument, stating date of recording, supervising engineer, samples taken for the film.

To me it was some surprise to see: they used a Nagra 4.2 IRT (whatever IRT means), but in any case it seems to be mono.

They used many 13 cm spools (!), though the Nagra 4.2 would take 18 cm easily.

They recorded at 19 cm/sec!

The quality of the master tapes, with headphones: you are at the set, you can almost kind of "see" the people in the room.

You hear just e v e r y t h i n g, even some people talking in the (staircase?) of the big house during the recording.

On one tape I checked yesterday I hear a barking dog from the distance, a few times . . .  🐕

Of course everybody at the set hears t h a t  dog, the two speakers, one older, the other a younger boy, are performing brave, do not allow themselves to get irritated.

The quality of the master tapes is just m i n d b l o w i n g, if played on a 4.2 mono, with AK 702 headphones; it is a true pleasure to listen, how the speakers/ actors perform, how they intonate every detail, different from one take to the next.

It is obvious to see, they all had high expectations, they knew what they were doing . . .

The master tapes also play very well on a Nagra III, but fo rme better on batteries, my psu (orig. Nagra) gives a tiny little hum to the signal at least at this particular Nagra III (serial no. B65 6393).

A properly aligned Studer A80 could scope with the quality, would come close, but would not outperform the Nagra 4.2, except you had stereo on the A80. But, for this, you could upgrade on the 4.2-S.

If I had the option to choose for a speech-recording, I would choose the 4.2 (or even the Nagra III, which is excellent too), and use 19cm/sec.

When it comes to two speakers, as for instance at an interview, I would perfer a 4.2-S - but, if not at hand, if I had "only" a 4.2 mono, I wouldn't bother.

If I ever had to record an important concert, I would take a Nagra 4.2-S and use 38cm/sec., obviously, with a Fostex Field recorder as digital backup.

 

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When I was working as 3rd or 4th man on sound crews in the late 1960s we used Nagra IIIs, Nagra IV-Ls and then Nagra 4.2s, eventually changing to IV-Ss for twin track recording. If I remember correctly, the ATN was used to power the machines off mains (in the UK 240 volts at 50Hz), and the ATN-ATU was used to charge rechargeable batteries within the Nagra - different pins on the socket on the Nagra if I remember correctly. I found that when operating off batteries, which was most of the time, except in studios, rechargeable batteries would not last as long between charges as ordinary HP2 batteries would before needing to be replaced.

 

Edited by Nick Flowers
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In the 1970s and '80s many SF based recordists used rechargeable D cells in their Nagras, charged in the machine via their ATN unit.  Like the previous poster, I found that the battery life of the rechargeables available then was too short to work for me and so didn't follow this path.  I recall getting many days of work out of a set of alkaline D cells in my Nagras, even the much more power-hungry IV-S Harvey Mod. 

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Yeah, never really cared for the rechargeables. The stock PAR charger was designed for 2000 or 2500 mAh cells as I recall, so it was useless with the later 4000 and 5000 mAh cells. Plus, you only got a supply voltage of about 14.4 volts with a set of fully charged ni-cads, which was a little too close to the regulator cut-off for my taste, especially if you were powering accessories from the recorder.

 

I think I experimented with an outboard charger at one point, with a higher charging rate, but was uncomfortable with the heat buildup in the battery compartment, so just abandoned the whole idea.

 

I'm thinking that Nagra may have intended the rechargeables more for radio reporting work, but not really sure. 

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Yeah, the Demme film is a lot of fun. A bunch of us watched the LaserDisc version while we were putting together Andy Davis's screening room up in Santa Barbara in 1994 or '95. Some nice footage.

 

I still have a VHS copy kicking around, but not the LaserDisc version.They never did a DVD that I'm aware of.

 

Maybe Gary Goetzman will take it up and do a Blu-Ray one of these days...

 

Dig the cover photo though!

 

 

On 9/4/2020 at 1:17 PM, SonicBoomPole said:

Happy Friday Nagra nerds...I came across a cool thing that may interest some of you:

 

 The Complex Sessions by Neil Young & Crazy Horse from 1994.

 

I have the Laserdisc and the beautiful image on the cover caught my eye.

 

It is a wonderful performance captured by John Hanlon on a Nagra IV or 4.2 (look at the photo and you tell me). Directed by Jonathan Demme with DP Tak Fujimoto. It looks and sounds great!

 

Enjoy the photos of the cover and the link to more info regarding the sessions.

 

 

IMG_5098.jpg

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Scott Smith said:

Yeah, never really cared for the rechargeables. The stock PAR charger was designed for 2000 or 2500 mAh cells as I recall, so it was useless with the later 4000 and 5000 mAh cells. Plus, you only got a supply voltage of about 14.4 volts with a set of fully charged ni-cads, which was a little too close to the regulator cut-off for my taste, especially if you were powering accessories from the recorder.

 

I think I experimented with an outboard charger at one point, with a higher charging rate, but was uncomfortable with the heat buildup in the battery compartment, so just abandoned the whole idea.

 

I'm thinking that Nagra may have intended the rechargeables more for radio reporting work, but not really sure. 

 

Kudelski and his team didn't nourish their customers with loads of information of how to charge the batteries in the Nagra, at least very little information can be found in the manuals. I will soon get a manual for the Nagra IIII, maybe there is more.

As for me I would like to get the picture, how things were properly handled at the time the units were sold, with cells at that time having some 2500 mAh, and then proceed from this to our time, when we have cells of up to 10.000 mAh available.

 

Most today's owners / collectors of a Nagra will not care for such considerations, for them it will be fine to have them in their shelves and enjoy to look at their collection. I would estimate: only a few Nagra enthusiasts are really u s i n g  their Nagra, for doing a recording once or twice a week. Don't you?

But, a true, aligned Nagra, it be a Nagra III or Nagra 4.2, they are true g e ms, far ahead of their time, Swiss engineering, driven by the spirit of a genius from Poland.

Make a test:

Do you have a microphone, I mean, a ncie one, which can scope with the Nagra?

Do you have a tape, let's say a Maxell XL I, or any other nice tape?

You have a running Nagra, right?

Why not take the mic., plug it in, get some headphones and talk, in "test mode".

Do you get any input? Please adjust, until all is f i n e !

Fine means: you hear yourself over the headphone, better and more clearly than in real life.

Then: switch to "record", at 19cm/sec - make a short test of your own voice . . .

Next, consider: Do I have anything to say, anything somebody might be interestet in, in 10, 20 or 50 years?

If so, then choose a time nobody will disturb you, switch off all phones, etc., and - t a l k.

As for me, I am not lacking self-confidence. I consider myself to be kind of interesting person, having done so many different things in life I can say something, about life and it's revelations.

So - why not you? I am 100% sure the members in this forum, especially in this thread, would have a l o t  to tell, if being asked.

Why not make the first step, and talk to your children? Obviously, we all need to make the steps in life by ourselves - but, getting some hints from father and mother may not be bad, right?

If we had some fun about this, we can make our private collecton - the guys from jwsoundgroup begin to talk . . . 

 

Sorry, this was getting quite off-topic.

Coming back to the cells: J, I do not quite understand: You state the original Nagra chargers, as for instance the ATN for the Nagra III, were designed for cells 2.500 mAh each.

Why not let them charge cells of 10.000 mAh, if they have about the same voltage?

To me, I understand it this way: charging means, a flow of electrons from a higher (voltage) level to a lower level, until the lower level has reached it's maximum it can hold.

Let's imagine a bowl, taking 2,5 liters of water.

I have a little tap, it provides 250 ml/ hour. In 10 h the bowl will be full.

If I took a larger bowl, taking 10 liter (= 10.000 mAh), then the water (electrons) will also go inside, it will just take 40 h, inistead of 10 h, right?

Would the set of 12 cells in let's say a Nagra IIII, 12 x 10.000 mAh = 120.000 mAh kind of "say": no, no, a current of 200 mA (the ATN-3 provides 250 or 400 mA) is too low for us, we don't like such little currents?

Would you reject if somebody gave you 200 cents per day, for free?

It may take some 2 full days to charge a set of cells inside the Nagra - but, who cares?

And with such a small current, there is no danger of getting the cells hot, right?

 

And, yes, it is true, the best batteries you can get have about 16.000 mAh, which is about 1,5 as much as a 10.000 mAh cell.

But - still, I would prefer to let a Nagra run on cells, this is closer to the concept of our genius, to my understanding.

 

Matthias

 

 

*Stefan Kudelski was borne 27th of Febr. 1929 - he is Pisces-Snake.

My favourite book about astrology begins about this particular sign, combining western and eastern astrology:

"This deep thinker is bubbly and graceful but only on the strict surface. Underneath roil
philosophies and perceptions too otherworldly to share with any but the most
enlightened. Pisces/Snake feels everything profoundly and intuits each situation with
such force and lucidity that he almost winces at the power of human contact.
Sensitivity takes on a whole new meaning in the case of the Pisces/Snake. Intuition is
redoubled, second sight emphasized and presentiment so powerful as to be considered
a gift. Pisces/Snake is a kind of witch in sheep’s clothing."

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