Nagra Stories Sound-men won’t ever tell

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

6 hours ago, dela said:

It has a tactile interface, like the SN, and the very mechanic control is much more intuitive than with than buttons.

I did like that about it, though I'm not convinced by the promo photos which show the recording in one hand while transcribing (one-handed?) with the other.  Picking up a completely separate device seems like a less practical method of cuing than good keyboard shortcuts for software on the same system.  But, I'm not a transcriber, so what do I know?  I do appreciate the interface!

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

More TP7 waffle ...

 

I couldn't tell from their guide/diagrams but with those 3-in-a-line multi jacks (sockets) wouldn't it have been nice if they were precisely the right distance apart so that one could use the double-jacked Nagra mics from the SD ?

 

Jez

Does it in fact power 'Plug in power' electrets? Seems weird if not, although I couldn't tell from the guide and it was a warning in the guide early on,

 

"never connect the 3.5 mm plug going from the TP–7's inputs or outputs to a microphone input with active phantom power. this could damage the TP–7."

 

that made me look ... hmm

 

[DHB]

No ..it doesn't provide power for 'plug-in power' 3.5mm mics.

 

The 3.5mm jack sockets are "..3 trrs stereo input/output mini jacks.." for use with, for example 'mic-&-cans'  or iPhone TRRS headsets, i.e; they provide UNPOWERED stereo INPUTS and OUTPUTS.

 

All three 3.5mm 'mic' sockets can be set - any choice of setting applies to all three sockets simultaneously - as: [A] mono on all 3 sockets, or; balanced mono, with left & middle sockets each set to a mono input, with a STEREO input on the 3rd, rightmost socket, or [B] all three sockets set for headsets with built-in mics, or [C] all three sockets set to line OUTPUTS. Phew.

 

This is all from the instruction leaflet, online here: https://teenage.engineering/guides/tp-7

 

Phantom power must NOT be allowed into the input sockets!

 

A 6.35mm (¼" ) to 3.5mm adaptor is provided with the unit for the 'Main Out' ¼" headphone socket on the bottom.

 

Ah, DocSoundGuy: "..promo photos which show the recording in one hand while transcribing (one-handed?) with the other.." ..no; that's showing that you DON'T do it that way with this recorder; if you use the phone app with the recorder, the app will transcribe automatically into text from the spoken voice! ..It's showing that the pic is the outdated, old  method.

Edited February 25, 2024 by DHB
Additional info

[The Documentary Sound Guy]

How does it get signal from the headset mic if it doesn't provide power?  I get that it wouldn't be 48V phantom, but electret mics still need a 5V power source ... they can't just be straight inputs.

 

3 hours ago, DHB said:

Ah, DocSoundGuy: "..promo photos which show the recording in one hand while transcribing (one-handed?) with the other.." ..no; that's showing that you DON'T do it that way with this recorder; if you use the phone app with the recorder, the app will transcribe automatically into text from the spoken voice! ..It's showing that the pic is the outdated, old  method.

What's the point of the (very elegant) rocker switch if not for precision cuing then?  If it just feeds the audio into an AI app, why design such unusual playback controls?  To be clear, I like the design!  I just don't think it's particularly great for transcription (and, even with AI tools, I think there's still a role for manual transcription when accuracy is needed).

[DHB]

5 hours ago, The Documentary Sound Guy said:

How does it get signal from the headset mic if it doesn't provide power?  I get that it wouldn't be 48V phantom, but electret mics still need a 5V power source ... they can't just be straight inputs.

 

I dunno; I simply read the documentation. Why don't you ask the people who designed it?  sales@teenage.engineering

 

[ P.S: If I do use electrets which don't have their own power, and I plug them into sockets which don't supply any power, I feed them through a small connector which DOES supply power, as, for example, with the old 'Vivanco'-brand teeny lapel/'lav' EM35 or EM216 miniature double-omni stereo mics. Ditto the 9v-needed AKG condenser mics with an XLR on the end: I use an AKG old inline supply box which runs off a 9v PP3 battery. Really easy. ] 

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

Cheers DHB, yeah I read the documentation too but, like Docu SG, thought 'surely not' ...

 

'Really easy' external powering options, and I could use a battery-fitted mic like an old Senn K3U or Sony 907, but I would be wanting to use cuter little mics with such a thing, like my aforementioned Nagra Green Band - nothing as easy as PiP.

 

But I'm not ever going to be blowing £$1000++ on such a gadget, even if I could, so I guess I'll just remain ignorant. I didn't even get as far as the AIBS (I hope my new term catches on ...), I assumed that was a good old rock n roll scroll wheel for stopping and pulling back the audio.

 

Jez

[DHB]

Those "..old Senn K3U.." and K6U cardioid mics were surprisingly good ..better than one would expect, anyway. And the (optionally) battery-powered Shure VP-88 was, and is, a great 'true' M/S mic. Then, of course, there was the (optionally) PP3-battery-powered Sony C38b studio mic ..and the 2x-PP3-rechargeable-battery-powered deep bass CAD e300² (recharges via phantom) ..but I'm getting off-topic..

 

Time for bed, G'nite!

[Ripplemark]

Hi guys! I have a Nagra SNN and there’s an issue with a internal microphone preamp. 
Does anyone have a servis manual scan?  Especially I’m looking for preamp section. 
I’ll appreciate any help 

Patrick 

[mono]

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/brycegonzales/?hl=en

[chuc]

Hi everyone,

I have a Nagra Ps1 player, after looking inside I found it's electronics are made of high quality components, so i think it will be able to produce very high quality sound if playback speed can adjust to something like normal cassette tape speed (4.75cm/s).

So anyone here know how to adjust playback speed?

is there any hidden numeric code to achieve that?

or do i have to modify some capacitors, resisters directly on pcb?

[dela]

@chuc:

 

That would be a very large project to rebuild a working collectors item to a very bad cassette player.:

 

1) You would need a JBR recorder (also heavily modified) to record anything

2) One of the main features of the PS-1 is that the speed is controlled by a control track in the middle of the tape. If this control track is not present, the tape speed will not be controlled.

3) It is a capstanless drive mechanism, so W&F will be higher than on most other cassette drives (even a lot of cheap ones)

4) The track layout is very different from the Compact Cassette layout. The JBR/PS-1 is half track(ish) with a middle control track, the CC layout is quarter track (with L and R on adjacent tracks). 

 

Anything is possible, but I think that it would be a lot of work, and without any advantages. And the end result would be a molested PS-1, which also would be a shame.

 

 

[Unsoundman43]

Absolutely fascinating. Thank you for sharing your story and these awesome photos. Truly a treasure IMO. 

[Cyr]

Thinking of getting  a 4.2 to record soundtrack for an animation project

as well as a 16mm film documentary . Do I send the soundtrack to Cinelab to take care of dubbing the soundtrack on to the film print (after film editing)? 

thanks.

monty

[JBond]

For those who follow Nagra Stories on JWSOUND, a  Number 08 Nagra III is up on eBay USA.
Backwords B,   5, upside down 8, light on the left side, followed by  0, 8, all going upstairs.

I do not know the seller.

 

 One day back in 1958, a Nagra employee must have had a rough weekend.

 

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

On 8/24/2024 at 3:19 PM, JBond said:

For those who follow Nagra Stories on JWSOUND, a  Number 08 Nagra III is up on eBay USA.
Backwords B,   5, upside down 8, light on the left side, followed by  0, 8

I do not know the seller.

 

 One day back in 1958, a Nagra employee must have had a rough weekend.

 

 

Perhaps this was one of the rare early Cyrillic models?

 

[Cyr]

On 7/21/2024 at 10:16 PM, Cyr said:

Thinking of getting  a 4.2 to record soundtrack for an animation project

as well as a 16mm film documentary . Do I send the soundtrack to Cinelab to take care of dubbing the soundtrack on to the film print (after film editing)? 

thanks.

monty

 

On 4/3/2024 at 1:49 AM, Ripplemark said:

Hi guys! I have a Nagra SNN and there’s an issue with a internal microphone preamp. 
Does anyone have a servis manual scan?  Especially I’m looking for preamp section. 
I’ll appreciate any help 

Patrick 

It should be on www://analog.nagraaudio.com

[dela]

This one is new to me: A Nagra IV-S equipped with a Aaton TC section. It is built around a stock IV-S (in this photo one of my own from the shelf), combined with a TC unit bolted on the bottom of the case. The FM pilot board has been replaced with a custom Aaton amplifier board (for the TC rec/playback/monitoring). All control is done using the Aaton Origin C+ TC generator, and the TC unit is then jammed to that. It has a mind of its own (probably due to cable faults and shorts within the case), so most of the time it stops after 15 seconds (and forgets its setup), but it is the principle that counts here. I am probably never going to use the TC anyway; it is mostly a showpiece.

 

Does anybody know this particular TC conversion? I have seen the Harvey mod, the David Lane player, the Neil Stone mod and (to a certain degree) the IRT 4.2, but I haven´t seen this one before. At least not for the Nagra; Aaton made a similar TC unit for the Stellavox, but this one is specifically made for Nagras.  

[Jeff Wexler]

That's wild! I have seen the Aaton - Stellavox unit but never this Nagra conversion. I was well aware of the other conversions mentioned but not this one. Very interesting.  

[tourtelot]

Is this the only one in existence?  Never ever seen such a thing.  Very cool.

 

D.

[Philip Perkins]

Could this be a prototype?  I also have never seen or heard of this rig.  Is it possible that Aaton made it by request for a specific project?  Ivan K's Coherent Communications TC generator used a similar bolt-to-the-bottom idea, but had nothing like the Origine C control available for it.  I'm guessing this rig might be from the late 1980s/early '90s, vs the Coherent rig being several years earlier...?  Where is this thing?  (The Nagra it is attached to looks pretty unscathed, which makes me think it could be a prototype...)

[dela]

It might be a prototype, but I think that it was meant for larger production runs. The case is cast aluminium, so it would be very expensive to manufacture 1-2 units in that way. But knowing Aaton it would not have been cheap, so it might just be a small scale production of a very high unit price. It looks a bit like the ATCIII Stellavox  TC unit, but that was also quite rare...

 

This unit is in Denmark (at my place), but it was sold to a Finnish cinematographer back in the day. I had the Nagra for repair/check up, and it was obvious that the unit had been fitted after it was sold as a standard IV-S. The Nagra was a 1980 version, so the TC unit is probably some years newer. The Origin TC+ was still used in 1999-2000, and technologically its electronics looks like the TC unit, so my guess is 1990-1995. Unfortunately we can+ t ask Aaton anymore...

 

The Nagra on the photo is a standard early IV-S that I had on the shelf. The TC unit is compatible with any IV-S (with pilot), so I chose the one that I didn´t mind experiment on. 

[Fred Salles]

Waow that is quite unseen and even unheard of! I do not understand: you wrote that the pilot board has been replaced by one by Aaton, but if it is your own Nagra unit how do you know and test it? 
Another question out of curiosity: how does this TC unit is supposed to connect to the Nagra, via the pilot in plug? 

[dela]

I have replaced the standard FM pilot board with the custom Aaton board, which is basically just record/playback amplifier for the pilot head.

The unit is relatively easy to test (when it is not in a foul mood and failing after 15-20 seconds): When it is synced to the Origin C+ TC, it shows the TC in the display during record. When the tape is is rewound and played back, the recorded TC is read from tape and shown in the display. So testing is easy, once you get to know the Origin C+ (which is not overly intuitive to use).

 

The unit has two cables connecting to the Nagra connectors: Line out (for power supply), and Cue connector (for signal to/from the cue track, which in this application is used for TC). Its Achilles heel is the cable outlets; there is simply not enough space for the individual wires on inside the case, so several of them were pinched and shorted to chassis. And it did not like that at all...

[Philip Perkins]

"once you get to know the Origin C+ (which is not overly intuitive to use). "

 

That is an understatement...

[Vienna]

Absent for a long time, now back from my last project I apologize for interrupting with braking news: a website is being prepared - online, but not yet functional - nagrabook.com