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Credit where Credit is due.


jason porter

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I don't often get emotionally involved in the projects that I work on. It's a job to me, I love it but it doesn't rule my life. I am detached.

Only twice in the past (almost) 20 years do I feel like I was slighted or passed over by my peers. I know I only feel this way because I got too close to the material. I became attached to the job.

A long time ago I worked on a silly travelling cooking show. There were musical elements and I worked hard to record them. Near the end of the series, a song was written by one of the producer/writers that had the singer/performer host playing 'homage' to the crew. Everyone on the crew got a line or a reference to their job or personality, it was fun and silly. The writer left me out of the song. I don't know why and I never had a chance to ask about it. I just bit my lip and ignored it, buried it, I guess. I know it sounds immature and childish, but I harbour no grudges.

More recently I worked on a short doc about a religious community. We (cam, host/director & me) spent some living amongst these people. We gained their trust, they opened up to us (somewhat) we had almost every meal with them, witnessed ceremonies and traditions and attended praywr. It was very much a collaborative project between the 3 of us, but obviously, they had control of the imagery and the editing, they deserve a lot of the attention that they are currently getting from a few awards & festivals. I've read a few articles about the project...my name not mentioned once.

I know I shouldn't care (all the cheques cleared) but I know when I experience something special.

I'm their defence, they rarely get a sound person (camera ends up doing everything) so maybe they just forgot that I was there ;)

Anyway, just wanted to unload that in a safe place amongst understanding peers.

JP

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Feelings are real and I understand yours in this instance. I've been in for 40 years and I have had 2 compliments. One was for what I considered shitty sound. As the song goes, "No one knows what it's like to be the sound man....." and that is true. You know your value and that's all that counts IMO.

CrewC

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Credits or lack of same can cause very hard feelings, and often the mistakes or omissions aren't discovered or realized until it is too late to do anything about them in terms of what's on the video or album cover etc..  That's why I try to make it a point to bring the subject up on projects where I think there might be credits, simply stating the credit I would like.  Whether or not the preoducers of a project actually put you in the credits is totally up to them, but most experienced people understand how important this is to the people who have worked on their projects and make some effort to do things right.  I have worked (hard) for some people who kind of just didn't think people like me needed to be credited--they only credited "creative" people, in their parlance (ouch!).  Others simply forgot--getting lost in a long list of VFX and production people and forgot all the soundies.  So--bring the topic up yourself, pref in an email, and maybe with a reminder (if you were a PSM and the post took a long time…).  Meanwhile, you can still attempt to attach yourself to your projects on IMDB….next best thing.

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Once at a wrap party, I had a similar experience. Director listed every single department, every single worker, every intern, except sound. Never found out the reason, but I did feel bummed at the time.

But then there are the good times, too, of course. Like some years ago I worked on a film where every actor was a voice-over artist. Most foreign language films get translated and dubbed over here, so it's a big business and these are well known voices.

At the wrap party the lead actor gave a speach and thanked me first, how much he liked what he heard watching the dailies. These are voice artist so sound matters a lot to them. Kinda makes up for the other omission

There is an initiative, so to speak, between soundies here to have at least one sound person (other than music) appear in the opening titles and in fact, try to have this put into our contracst. This is not so much for personal credit, though, but to promote sound overall.

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I watched director's commentary on one movie I mixed. Crazy movie. Challenging. At one point crew walked off (pay issue). Just a few of us stood by the director. Our department had a great relationship with director. He even wrote me an incredible reference to another director, labeling me as a friend and "the best production mixer he has ever used".

He mentioned virtually EVERYONE during the movie, and even continued through the credits, grabbing names (including his whole post sound team).

I have never really objected to any credit position, or poor spelling of my name, or omission - but this movie was particularly personal and my boom op and I busted out asses to deliver. I was upset by the omission, but realized I was probably the only person who would ever listen to the commentary, so really no big deal.

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I cannot remember a specific instance, but I do understand the sentiments expressed here. Is it because that we often strive to be "the invisible department"? That the only time we are likely to speak up is if there is a problem?

More than once, I have had a director or a DP tell me "I like having you on set, because I forget you are here". It is a backhanded compliment, but it is expressing that we don't disrupt their workflow, and are not a high maintenance members of the crew.

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In the mid '80's I worked on a film for visitors center kiosks for one of the National Park Service historical parks. The producer sent me a copy to watch and called later to ask what I thought. When I mentioned that my name was misspelled in the credits he asked if I had any problems depositing the checks he'd paid me with. I said no to which he responded "Your name was spelled the same way on your checks and in the credits."

Best regards,

Jim

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Only once have I felt this way too. I was on a reality show for 4 years and busted my butt daily to get great audio. Season 4 the show got a new show runner and producer they didn't like me but the talent did. So they started picking apart everything I did and sending me emails complaining about audio. ( I asked to see clips of there issues and the refused to show me any). When the show took a few week hiatus they told me "we will let you know when we will start filming again" instead of telling me they were going in another direction they just never called again. When show aired I watched all the episodes they complained about and the audio was fine. Ever since then I have always kept my distance on a job and not gotten attached to anything. 

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I have had great experiences and worked with wonderful groups of people on small shows and large over the years... had a great amount of respect and caring for the job I did... BUT...

 

Credit?  just move on.... They probably give more credit to 20 other depts. but that's their problem, not ours.. what can you do other than be professional, do a great job and be polite and friendly... If the credit does not come.. as I said, move on.

 

 Your a sound person, get used to it....  It's getting worse, not better...

 

 They would rather pay for  10 PAs than your gear pkg.....  A huge motorhome, but no funds to pay for your gear.... Hundreds of dollars of Starbucks, but no budget for you.... I could go on for an hour...

  This is financial ignorance, the ignorance related to "Credit or caring about you personally or professionally" I can take, and have for years... it's the ignorance associated with my actual pay that gets me the most.  I never expect any classy behavior from these folks... when I do get some actual respect for a job well done, or giving a s%$@ about me personally, it is then I am actually surprised... it does happen, but not too often.. 

 

  Expect nothing, enjoy it when it comes, ignore it when it's business as usual... remember it's work, not a get together of buddies...

Don't take it home... Many of the folks I would probably not want to be buddies with anyhow...  

 

I know when I had a job well done, I don't need to hear it from them anyhow.... or, to be a part of their "group"... If they ask me back..great... if not, on to the next gig... The DP probably had a friend he met at a 7-11 that they wanted on the next show...  "He really was a funny guy!!!"  

 

 More often than not, the closer you feel to prominent working associates, the higher the fall will be...

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Your a sound person, get used to it.... It's getting worse, not better...

...

Don't take it home... Many of the folks I would probably not want to be buddies with anyhow...

...

More often than not, the closer you feel to prominent working associates, the higher the fall will be...[/quote

This all made me cringe. I'm sorry that this has been your experience. However, I don't share these feelings at all. This isn't just a job, it is your life, and there's no time to waste on people that you dislike, or those that disrespect you.

E.

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It's only my life while on set.... Be happy, show up on time, be friendly and do the best job you can... You can't control anything else.. so, let it be...  

 

  I waste no time on people who are not kind or friendly, I just move on.... that was my point... Sorry you missed that part... I do not take it home or for that matter stress or fret over it...

 

Why would it make you cringe, it's just a forum post.... LOL ::)

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When you are starting out credits on real gigs are really important. That's how you get more gigs. I wasn't taken seriously in the video game world until I had actually managed to get some real AAA titles under my belt and was able to point to IMDB so people could see that I actually worked on things. 

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I don't think I ever got a job because of a credit at the end of a project, I don't really care about that.

What does bother me is when everyone is getting a pat on the back but me. And, we are talking about TINY crews, not big Hollywood productions with hundreds of people.

The other people (crew) involved in my situation are great people and I wouldn't hesitate to work with them again, it's the "higher ups" that fail me.

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In over 20 years of production sound work, I've worked on maybe five or six projects where I felt the Director really understood and cared about the production sound.  I'm sure that's not indicative of the number of above the line folks that actually did care / do care... but it is indicative of this:

 

 

 

I cannot remember a specific instance, but I do understand the sentiments expressed here. Is it because that we often strive to be "the invisible department"? That the only time we are likely to speak up is if there is a problem?

More than once, I have had a director or a DP tell me "I like having you on set, because I forget you are here". It is a backhanded compliment, but it is expressing that we don't disrupt their workflow, and are not a high maintenance members of the crew.

 

...and by the time a project goes to screen, this sentiment has typically multiplied -- we're often overlooked.  

 

Our line of work is voodoo to 95% of our industry.  They don't understand it, and they don't like that they don't understand it -- so, through no fault of our own, we are often viewed as a "necessary evil."  I was even once told by a Director that he wished he could do only silent movies.  Cool, thanks -- so, should I take my toys and go home?  Nah, just more of a challenge.

 

Regardless of the pay, the projects from which I departed with the deepest sense of accomplishment are those where I felt like what I did mattered to more than just me.  Sometimes that occurred right out of the gate, with little effort of my own to "spread the gospel".  Some directors really understand the importance of what we do.  

 

At other times, I was compelled to educate -- in the most diplomatic way I could -- those who I thought I might be able to reach -- to the point where I think I might have actually gotten through to some folks and gained some respect for our craft.

 

Then, there is the vast majority of my "accomplishments" for which quite frankly, I wish I could have used a pseudonym in the credits.

 

To feel attached to a project and not get the recognition one feels he/she deserves is a bitter pill to be sure, but the wide range of advice herein is indicative of our entire industry -- how we feel as individuals about our careers and history of projects will likely be all over the map throughout the span of our careers.

 

Challenge yourself to be the best Soundie on the planet -- recognition or not, and know that you at least have a peer group here that does understand, and will encourage you and recognize your contributions.

 

One last thing -- when all else fails, watch a few episodes of "Dirty Jobs" and be glad that you're a Soundie and not a pig farmer.

 

Hang in there.

 

Enjoy life.

 

~tt

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In post anyhow, the IMDB thing is a big deal, there is no getting around it.  It's the first thing anyone looks at when your name comes up for a project, way before they look at your own site or ask anyone about you.  You can sometimes "fix" poorly credited work on IMDB, but it's better to have your name right in the real credits of the film.  This all IS important re getting more work, which is why I decided to be proactive about it.  In production sound, credits are only a deal for work on dramatic films, longform docs and TV shows--most of the work a lot of us do: commercials, corpo, ed-market, ENG, etc etc don't have credits--hell, it's all I can do to get production to remember to put us on the call sheet (and send us one, even)!  

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samsound,

When you need a honeywagon, you really need one ;) You would expect most actors to have awareness/appreciation of sound folk since they're dangling mics over their head or wrangling mics on their person.

 

TT,

You can't put lipstick on a pig..but you might be able to lav 'em. It depends ;)

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Crush is still on, big time for me. I worked with Helen just last year and she is a wonderful person and very much in tune with the crew, including the sound department. In an effort to remember every single crew person she just forgot to mention the all important sound crew. I wouldn't hold it against her for a minute. 

 

post-1-0-66088700-1424383705_thumb.jpg

 

- in "O Lucky Man"  1973

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We see it all the time in post too.

Spend a whole season mixing a show, working hard to do the best we can to make the show sound the best it can.

Season wrap party.

Every office assistant, gopher, bellboy and runner is invited.

Not us.

 

Doh, and they usually forget to invite the colorists, too. And for some reason, colorists' credits on network shows have kind of faded in the last 5 years. I blame the 18 producers on the shows, who do get credit.

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If you notice sound, it's bad sound.

Maybe:

They do work with image processing, color correction, editing, and so on, and they do run into challenges with all of these "image" aspects at some point. And what's always there, and what does never stick out? The sound we recorded.

That's why they forget us.

Sometimes, sound post reminds them of us when they say, "we don't need to work on this very much, you had a good PSM" - funnily, they don't usually say, "you had a good boom op"...

 

It's not just credits or invitations. It's also pictures taken on set. Lots of photos of PAs, makeup assistants, wardrobe, and any other department. Sound: not so often.

I don't think it's a bad thing. We can do our job without always being bothered by a camera.

 

Better than being "visible" in the usual sense of  WAITING FOR SOOOOUUUND - bad publicity.

A happy "Soooound rrrrolling" at the right time does much more than announce that sound is rolling.

EDIT: As do some sweets and a pair of potentiometers.

 

Good rants so far in this thread.

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PK,

"Sometimes, sound post reminds them of us when they say, "we don't need to work on this very much, you had a good PSM" - funnily, they don't usually say, "you had a good boom op"..."

 

That's because it looks so easy, but of course is not...    The boom ops are ULTRA important as WE all know... Bad boom placement and sound is not what we like, well, bad....      Bad boom placement and they are in shot, Bad boom placement and we see shadows, Bad boom handling and there is noise, Bad Lav mounting and we're dead, bad hustling by a boom op and we're dead, Bad awareness by the boom op and things don't get done...  Bad attitude by the boom op and we look like bad... Grips, electricians and camera folks won't work with us... Dead again...  

 HARD F#$@%&* JOB, and difficult to do really well.. Extremely mis understood and disrespected... Bad boom Op = poor sound...  Poor sound = poor project....Period.

 

 I do think there are a lot of Production folks that have no clue exactly what they do or how important they are... If they did, there would be more respect given them and less requests to do without them...  Crew as well...  I just don't think they understand... I or we have no time to teach them... Now were back to, sit back and let it ride off your back... it is what it is...

 

 Reminds me of the line from Jesus that went something like... ( sorry no church background) " Forgive them lord, they no not what they do... "

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