Jeff Wexler Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 My hero, John Blankenship, once again the voice of reason that brings clarity to any and every issue. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 It's also very possible that they reached some sort of settlement out of court, and getting involved in one of these discussions could jeopardize that agreement. Maybe it's not a good idea to push either side for answers when they obviously don't want to talk about it on a public forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Duffy Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 or things could still be ongoing, in a non-commenty kind of comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted March 31, 2015 Report Share Posted March 31, 2015 I just wanna add to my post that I don't think Zaxcom is like Apple, trying to win patent cases to stifle competition. I don't even see how this is a discussion. There was a complaint and Tascam complied to that complaint. Settled right there I'd say If you go back more than 4 years, you would see that Apple got torn apart by lawsuits like that. Look up the Creative vs Apple lawsuit over the iPod as a good example. It might seem like nothing to them now, but at the time Apple had to pay creative $100 million because they had a patent on something as vague as "a portable device to listen to digital music". I think it was in the Isaacson book, that said that was the last straw to Steve Jobs and he never wanted to get caught in a patent suit like that again, and from then on they had a slew of people protecting their intellectual property with lots of patents. If you are specifically referring to android OS, that's a kind of unique case. If you want to talk about computer companies and lawsuits, I don't think you can say something like that without bringing in Google and Microsoft and pretty much everyone else. That's just the way they all do business. Bill Gates was famously threatening lawsuits against the Homebrew Computer Club even before Apple was incorporated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 We don't know if a patent (or several) were infringed. It appears there was a claim of patent infringement. But it also appears that the issue wasn't pressed hard enough by either side to end up in court, where there might be some determination if there was infringement...and perhaps also on if the patent was valid. Was this a totally clear case of infringement, or was it patent trolling? I have no idea. But for Tascam, the TA5F version of the little DR10 would probably not sell in numbers big enough to press a lawsuit. And both Tascam and Zaxcom can better spend their resources and time on other stuff. The 3.5mm version of the recorder would, I think, be a bigger seller. All the DSLR, G2, etc crowd. So maybe there is or will be some licensing agreement. And maybe that agreement will have some limits placed on what sort of connectors Tascam can offer. We just don't know. OK, this is all obvious. I'll stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Meanwhile, the "S" DR10 is working well, inoffensively it would seem. In truth, I can get along without the contested "C" version for what I do quite well, and am grateful that it's avail with a little extra effort. It's a small market product for, in truth, lower end jobs which is how I'll use it. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 If you go back more than 4 years, you would see that Apple got torn apart by lawsuits like that. Look up the Creative vs Apple lawsuit over the iPod as a good example. It might seem like nothing to them now, but at the time Apple had to pay creative $100 million because they had a patent on something as vague as "a portable device to listen to digital music". I think it was in the Isaacson book, that said that was the last straw to Steve Jobs and he never wanted to get caught in a patent suit like that again, and from then on they had a slew of people protecting their intellectual property with lots of patents. If you are specifically referring to android OS, that's a kind of unique case. If you want to talk about computer companies and lawsuits, I don't think you can say something like that without bringing in Google and Microsoft and pretty much everyone else. That's just the way they all do business. Bill Gates was famously threatening lawsuits against the Homebrew Computer Club even before Apple was incorporated. Thank you! Reading stories in papers and blogs over here makes it sort of seem like Apple is actually pulling guns on everyone they can to put an end to their competition. Thinking of Samsung specifically .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted April 1, 2015 Report Share Posted April 1, 2015 Ah, that was a fun ride. Nice thread indeed. +1 to Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBoisseau Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Is it "legal" to order a DR10c out of Canada and have it shipped to the US? If so, does anyone know of a supplier in Canada who has them in stock? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil D Posted April 2, 2015 Report Share Posted April 2, 2015 Check out the Tascam home page. The TA5 "L" model is no longer listed in the product range, anywhere. None of the models is available in the US. The remaining 3 x versions..Sennheiser, Ramsa / Sony, and Shure, are available in other territories. If you want one of these handy bits of kit, use google to find a reseller, and register your support via your wallet! A couple of adapter leads, and you will be in business. I will report my findings when mine arrives from the UK in a couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralleput Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Sorry Jeff,John and Jack, the actual answer to my questions came from Michael : A review of the complaint indicates that it is not the TA5 or any connector per se at issue, but Zaxcom's patent on "Virtual Wireless Multitrack Recording System". As clearly stated in the complaint, TEAC's product infringed on Zaxcom's patent by including instructions on its use in combination {with a wireless device} that infringes on Zaxcom's patent:"recording systems with instructions for combination and use by end users in a manner such that the recording system and/or method of use infringes one or more claims of the ‘902 Patent." That's it. TEAC allegedly infringed Zaxcom's patent by instructing how the device can be used in combination {with a wireless}. Zaxcom is not alleging that the device itself infringed, rather, the device + instructions for combining infringed. This implies that, had TEAC simply not explained how the device could be used in combination, we might be able to purchase this. Attached Files Zaxcom Complaint..pdf 62.49KB 15 downloads Was that so hard to answer?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Apparently, some people prefer an argument over a discussion. My sentiments are with the discussion contingent -- it's much more productive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralleput Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Argument: your words.I just asked a question and got misty answers.No discussion nor an argument..Just nothing.Until Michael! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 There are lots of reasons why some of the answers were "misty" and there was no maliciousness in this --- things were misty because no one knows the whole story except for the direct participants which would be people from Zaxcom and people from Tascam. I would add, bralleput, that the "answer" you finally feel properly answered your questions (a document, one of many, purported to be the original patent infringement filing) is also a bit misty and potentially does not tell the whole story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bralleput Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 Jeff, Michael gave an answer to the 'patent issue',that got rid of the mist.Still don't get what the actual issue is from Zax(ok they have the patent for a recorder combined transmitter) but they don't sell a standalone recorder 'connected' to a (any) transmitter.(wish they would :one with TC!) I could use any recorder (Sony D50,Nagra LINO or Pico, Zoom...any?) in this situation/setup (recorder has the mike on input-output goes to any transmitter )so what is the difference with the Tascam recorder? But let it be.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 So, should I just "let it be" or should I try to answer your questions, avoiding, of course, adding to the mist which I feel is definitely still in the air on this issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 My "argument vs discussion" comment was in response to what seems to be an obsession by some to pass judgment on a legal situation for which they know little, and for which they have even less need to know. It smacks of someone who has an axe to grind, and is desperate to find a grindstone. I much prefer a fruitful discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted April 4, 2015 Report Share Posted April 4, 2015 I seem to remember that.... Arriflex and Aaton traded a good few patent issues Apple and almost anyone have done similar was it Cinema Products who originally made Steadicam - they flung out a good few patent warnings, or more. Litepanels have been fairly prolific in respect of patents. I believe that at one point they looked at taking on both Sony and Apple, over a patent that covered using an led light for the purposes of lighting for video 'filming' - yes - that would have taken in just about every mobile phone sold in the last ten or so years. Rycote have got close to a few skirmishes in court over patents. Didnt Fostex get taken through court by Sony over TC for DAT (I may well be wrong on this one) Dont Avid/Pro Tools defend their patents on a regular basis? What was the famous video NLE skirmish - was it DaVinci and Matisse? The patents office, in whatever country, is meant to grant patents to stuff that they feel is new and innovative. The American patents office is regarded by many as quite broken, and that it grants patents to stuff that really doesn't deserve them. It is reported that the courts in Dallas (I cant remember the exact one) is known for being super patriotic towards US held patents as opposed to those held by companies from countries outside the US. A good friend of mine spent a couple of years defending a case there which was to say the least dubious. He reckons it cost him 2 days a week of his time for a couple of years. Put another way he was not being the MD/CEO of his own company for 40+% of his working week. It took its toll on him and the company, which, even though the case was settled eventually on the court steps, in the end went bust. Technically they had not lost the case, but they went bust all the same. So - are any of the above companies 'bad guys' for looking to protect their huge investments in R&D for their own products? What exactly is your point Jon? Kindest, sb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted April 5, 2015 Report Share Posted April 5, 2015 Still don't get what the actual issue is from Zax Clearly Tascam gets what the "issue" is because at this time they aren't currently selling them in the US. If there was no "issue" the items would be or sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I guess we'll see how this plays out re USA sales of DR10 in its various configs. I don't know that the model that is avail overseas is exactly flying off the shelves, so it may be that Tascam ends up deciding (or has already decided) that it isn't worth the hassle and lawyer fees to continue it. But I think that it is likely that someone else will try a similar thing. I wholeheartedly urge Zaxcom to consider making a recorder like a ZFR with a mic passthrough that might be avail with various connector types. I would strongly consider buying such a device, even at considerable increase in cost over the DR10. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Anderson Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I wholeheartedly urge Zaxcom to consider making a recorder like a ZFR with a mic passthrough that might be avail with various connector types. I would strongly consider buying such a device, even at considerable increase in cost over the DR10. That records WAV and MP3 natively. Using ZaxConvert to go through the process of changing audio files at the end of a production day takes time when so often copying files to the DIT or producer's laptop is being done after wrap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Is it "legal" to order a DR10c out of Canada and have it shipped to the US? If so, does anyone know of a supplier in Canada who has them in stock? Tom I've tried to find them up here with no luck so far. If you find someone, please let me know. The product should be find to sell in Canada, since Zaxcom products can't be sold in Canada because they haven't been approved by Industry Canada (our FCC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I've tried to find them up here with no luck so far. If you find someone, please let me know. The product should be find to sell in Canada, since Zaxcom products can't be sold in Canada because they haven't been approved by Industry Canada (our FCC). Justan, the Tascam DR-10c is NOT a Zaxcom product so your statement has no validity and is a useless reply to TomBoisseau's question. Do you want to look like the opportunist and Zaxccom basher you are? The patent dispute between Tascam and Zaxcom has for the moment resulted in the DR-10c not being available for sale in the US (as per Tascam's website and the dealers that sell Tascam products in the US). To my knowledge there has been no restriction on its sale outside the US (the Zaxcom patent applies primarily to sale in the US). Patent law, however, I believe provides some legal language regarding purchasing items in other countries and shipping them for use in this country. Again, I am not a lawyer, I do not have any direct contact with the lawyers who work for Zaxcom and Tascam, so I'm not able to answer these questions properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted April 7, 2015 Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 Justan, the Tascam DR-10c is NOT a Zaxcom product so your statement has no validity and is a useless reply to TomBoisseau's question. Do you want to look like the opportunist and Zaxccom basher you are? The patent dispute between Tascam and Zaxcom has for the moment resulted in the DR-10c not being available for sale in the US (as per Tascam's website and the dealers that sell Tascam products in the US). To my knowledge there has been no restriction on its sale outside the US (the Zaxcom patent applies primarily to sale in the US). Patent law, however, I believe provides some legal language regarding purchasing items in other countries and shipping them for use in this country. Again, I am not a lawyer, I do not have any direct contact with the lawyers who work for Zaxcom and Tascam, so I'm not able to answer these questions properly. Why yes I was making a point. And yes personally I will never use a Zaxcom product again, I know lots of people in Canada who would like to. I was told back in December the issue with the IC would be taken care of. And I have heard nothing about it. And yes did call Zaxcom, not mentioning who I was, and I was only told we are taking care of it. That was a few weeks ago. Now with NAB and new products coming out, I'm sure more people will have interest for there products up here. I apologize for jacking the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted April 7, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 7, 2015 I was told by companies overseas that do sell the DR10S that the DR10C isn't available to them either, that Tascam hasn't made but a very few of them. There is only the DR10S, with accessory connector plates for the plugs used by AKG and Shure (this model has internal menu settings for those TX). But the hardware adapters work just fine for various flavors of mic configs (incl Lectro) into the "S" model. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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