enginufuk Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall?utm_campaign=&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=ts.la-twitter&utm_content=awesm-inlinelinkcreator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Miramontes Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I think it's the future. I believe Japan is already doing something like this. The price for the unit looks reasonable however how many solar panels are required to make it work? That's what I want to know. I can use it to power my aquarium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Goldberger Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I love that Musk is so awkward in this presentation, like a pimply kid presenting his science fair project. Just seems like a humble guy trying to save the planet (and make himself super-rich in the process). From what I know about Tesla, I'm on board with this and nearly everything else he's trying to do. A few thoughts: --I live in New York City, so the options for charging my own power pack outside the grid are limited. I wonder if it could possibly be cost-effective in the short-term for cities to access green energy and utilize storage like this... --I know that people have been storing power from their solar panels with Lead Acid batteries for decades, but i'm curious to know the instant cost savings (if any) that something like this could provide versus the "old-fashioned" way. --What is the environmental impact of mining enough lithium for 2 billion tesla batteries to fill that little red pixel. I assume however bad that impact might be, it pales in comparison to what we're doing to ourselves with Oil and Gas. --I bet those things are quieter then a Diesel generator on set! e. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Goldberger Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Although....meanwhile in Washington: http://bangordailynews.com/2015/01/22/politics/senate-not-ready-to-tie-climate-change-to-mankind/?utm_source=BDN+News+Updates&utm_campaign=a4475d81a1-RSS_AFTERNOONUPDATE_EMAIL_CAMPAIGN&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_715eed3192-a4475d81a1-82523041 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I've been on farms in Pennsylvania that are basically off grid with solar. They may still have a connection to the grid for emergency, or maybe to sell back some power, but they generate everything they use. They have a whole part of their steel building garage thing that is just all of those big lead acid batteries. I think you could replace that whole section of garage that was lead acid batteries all over the floor with one or two of these wall hanging tesla batteries. Sure, a farm has space, but that's not as viable to a typical suburban home. Last thing they want is to lose 1/3 of their 2 car garage to a collection of lead acid batteries. Granted, I don't know how much electricity a farm really pulls and I never got to ask. You figure a lot of their equipment runs on liquid fuel. I was even thinking of other uses. We always seem okay in Philadelphia, but I know people maybe half an hour to 45 minutes outside the city that have lost electricity for a week or two because of tree branches coming down in rain/snow storms. If you lose electricity, your natural gas or oil heating system isn't going to turn on unless you have a generator (most don't). Then pipes can freeze, it's a mess. Eventually your security system isn't going to work. There was a few neighborhoods that had that problem of break-ins because everyone went someplace warm, and the backup security system batteries died. Even if this can float your house a few days, till you clear the snow off your solar panels, it's amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Several things aren't mentioned in the presentation. What does the DC to AC inverter cost? In the list of appliances and the amount of energy they consume daily no mention is made of cooking, heating, or air conditioning. Those are by far the most power hungry appliances that we have become addicted to. Also not mentioned is how much it will cost environmentally to mine all the lithium used in these battery packs. Also when they become expended and are no longer taking a charge how are they disposed of or re-cycled? Are there toxic metals or materials used in these batteries like there are in Lead Acid batteries? So 100% solar power collection and storage may be a great option in the sunny States of Nevada, California or North Texas, but how well will Solar power generation work in Seattle or Portland Ore or New England where the sunny days are very limited. I suppose Wind power would be an option in those stormy states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 $3.500? Nice product for "eco rich" peoples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I hope it's as wonderful as he says it is. Unfortunately, it sounds too good to be true. Perhaps the whole story isn't being told about it's capabilities and consequences. Were all the people in the audience drunk? Pretty low life behavior going on in the peanut gallery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Suppling the lithium is going to be a major problem,but I like the dream.How long will the lithium batts. last----12 to 15 yrs.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Ragon Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 First off, yes, the price is high.. But lets not forget History. Cell phones were $10/min when they first came out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 The price is not high at all. How much do you usually have to pay for a 10kwh battery? I have never seen a battery of that size that wasn't at least 3 times more expensive and to those you'd have to add a converter, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 The costs of generating electricity by nuclear means is astronomical which is one of the reasons no utility company would have ever opted to build a nuclear power plant without huge subsidies from our government and guarantees from the military, indemnification from civil lawsuits and all sorts of arrangements. The mining of lithium is far less dangerous than the mining of uranium. Whenever we speak about the costs of any technology it is very important to not narrow the definition of cost --- it is not always just a matter of dollars and cents though many choose to look at it this way. Continuing to rely on coal, oil, natural gas and nuclear, seemingly economical and cost effective today, fails to consider the costs to health, not only the health of living species but the health of planet earth. What are we saving if we continue to pursue technologies that may show a decent bottom line but are killing us and the planet that sustains our very lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I can't imagine the $3500 product he mentioned would run a house of any size here in Texas. Is this product really any different than what is already out there? There are a couple of companies that are already doing this. A company called sun power used to have a program here in Texas where essentially you were leasing the equipment. They would take the rebates and adjust the monthly fee accordingly. They no longer do it, but the install cost was roughly $10,000 for a 3000 square-foot house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 The lithiumIon batteries were invented in the early 20th century. But before Sony adapted them in the 90s they were not popular at all. So it is THE IDEA of energy stored at home that PowerWall is going to make popular. Especially considering how much power the old USA grid waists transporting energy... I was always on the fence about buying in to solar "especially considering the Nevada Energy Cap. But know it makes absolute sense. And by the way the battery is warranted for 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 My solar power installation on my house in Santa Monica is a leased system (from GCI Solar) with Net Metering contract with Southern California Edison (so I am "on the grid"). There was no installation cost to me, no permit fees from the city and no administrative expense or hassle setting it up with Edison --- this was all done by GCI. We were able to size the system with enough panels (all mounted on my garage roof, not the main house) and the panels have supplied enough current during daylight hours to not only run everything in our house but produce as well excess electricity that is "sold" back to Edison. We do not have any storage so at night, the demand for electricity is met by power from Edison grid. I live in a small house, 1650 square feet approximately, and we do not have high demand (no central air, etc.) and at night when we are having to "buy" our electricity from Edison, it is at a very low rate (and of course the demand is minimal during the night). Now, the other good part: our monthly lease payment is fixed and is less than our Edison bill ever was prior to installing solar. We are credited by Edison for all the electricity we give back to the grid and this credit pays for the small amount of electricity we purchase from Edison every night. Additionally, most years we have had such an excess of power generated all day that the credits have more than covered the cost of the electricity we need at night. Last year Edison sent us a check for $659.00 which was the amount of credit in excess that we had built up with them over the last 12 months. I imagine that if I were to purchase the Tesla Powerwall we would never need even the small amount of electricity we get from Edison at night, but it really doesn't make much sense, for us, to shell out the $3500. to become that much more self-sufficient. Anyway, the numbers are not the most important factor, for me, in all of this. I never once spent any significant amount of time "running the numbers" --- I knew I wanted to do this and I am very pleased with the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Jeff, Maybe your energy bill is not a lot in Santa Monica but in Vegas people pay a lot of money. I have friends that pay $3500 from may to october. Air conditioning is expansive. I am hoping for some sort of tax incentive. I can purchase the battery and solar panels, pay for installation, and help create local solar jobs. "From next year all Tesla power will be manufactured in Nevada" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Very well said, Jeff. And the Tesla announcement is just one more piece in this ongoing evolution of products and solutions, adding to the overall forward momentum. Here's a good article in WIRED about where Tesla fits in. http://www.wired.com/2015/05/tesla-powerwall-will-make-batteries-commodities/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Rado: there was an article that an analyst seemed to think energy providers were in talks to subsidize the Tesla battery and allow the rest to be monthly payments. I don't know which providers, but that would be interesting. Solar panel incentives have always been political. At one point NJ had pretty good ones and Pennsylvania had 0. Not surprising considering PA is old coal, and now big into fracking. Pennsylvania now has some solar credits, but it's definitely stifled. Even our baseball and football stadiums have wind and solar power generators. Where does all the Hover Dam power go, if not to Vegas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmahaAudio Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Why lithium batteries keep catching firehttp://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/01/economist-explains-19 US testing shows aircraft safety systems can't prevent lithium-ion battery firehttp://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2015/05/01/us-testing-of-lithium-batteries-alarms-aviation-officials Batteries on planes pose 'increased fire risk'http://www.bbc.com/news/business-25733346 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 I am interested in seeing how much our next bill will be. We moved end of last year, and have only had to run the aircon a lot the last two months. The house we were in before was small yet we had 3 bills last year that were $900 each. Once we get out solar installed, it will be interesting to see how much much we will still be paying yearly. If it's more than $400, then it would be worth it in the Longrun. Especially since they are projecting a rate hike of 25% in the next couple Of years. As of now, it looks like our daily average use is about 4kwh a day. So a 10 kWh battery would more than suffice, and we would never ever ever pay for electricity again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Nice presentation, except the little awful product video with the terrible music. But that aside, this a very attractive product. Question is: what to do with the batteries once they'reold and unusable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 So a 10 kWh battery would more than suffice, and we would never ever ever pay for electricity again. That is, if your solar panels manage to fully charge the battery on time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Batteries on planes pose 'increased fire risk' http://www.bbc.com/news/business-25733346 From the article: "batteries bought from respectable retailers are regulated and safe" I don't think you'll see too many of these Tesla batteries on a plane anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 That is, if your solar panels manage to fully charge the battery on time Which is why I'm going to look at our usage vs size of panels we are having installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted May 3, 2015 Report Share Posted May 3, 2015 Las Vegas sun does the job. That is, if your solar panels manage to fully charge the battery on time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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