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Zaxcom Nomad 12 Vs. Sound Devices 688


DT301

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The 788 w CL8 produced enough 'stray RF' to significantly affect the range of my Blk 25 lectros (411's) whereas the Nomad has no affect on them that I can see.

The 788 is a notorious RF Sprayer - add a USB cable for the keyboard and the RF noise floor is raised by about 10dB. Using AES/EBU connections makes it even worse. I haven't used the 688 yet, so I can't comment on its RF shielding, but I've used my 664 and a 552 with digital connections and they have not affected the RF noise level at all. So my conclusion is that Sound Devices learned how to minimise the RF spray. So please don't judge the 688 based on the performance of the 788. Cheers Fred Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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What do YOU need?  I have never really worked on a show that required more than 6-8 mics, and those that do, usually have more than 1 mixer.

The question - tailored for me... would be very tough to choose one or the other.

Zaxcom Nomad would give me Zaxnet control of my Zaxcom wireless, has digital I/O, but sound quality, weight, size - are all close enough to be a non-issue for me.  What I really really, I mean, really dislike about the Zaxcom recorders, is how they feel to use.  I'm definitely coming from a Sound Devices camp from past experience and dislike how illogical (for me) the buttons are laid out, the selection of button types, the use of shift features, the industrial / HUI design of the whole affair.  From a purely technical perspective, there's no question, Zaxcom all the way, but I don't live in a purely technical world.

Sound Devices 688 - no digital I/O, don't like the transport joystick, is a downgrade from the 664 in that it looses the filter pot.  I think the controls are too compact, wish they had left it 6 channels of controls and kept the 664 style layout.  In fact, does a 664 meet your needs?  Prices are good for those, has a good reliable old fashioned analog mix buss, and can still handle high track counts when needed.

SIDE NOTE - yes it is true that I will never ever buy a recorder that uses "membrane-like" soft buttons or shift function for transport function or a transport joystick.  I know that I'm abnormal for this strict criteria, as most everyone else gets over it - just something I have to deal with, which means that leaves me with recorder like the Aaton Cantar (which I own, but would have purchased a Zaxcom or SD product if they had met my criteria), Nagra VI (which I also own and love), and the new Zoom F8 (which seriously I'd recommend as a recorder if it does what it advertises as even though it is compromised, it is a wise entry investment into this biz).  For me the simple fact that the Zoom F8 has a dedicated RED record button, trumps the Nomad and 688 in my book.  (it's an interesting book, not for the feint of heart)

Tom,

The reasons you dont like nomad are exactlly the reason I like it.

Shifted commands. simple layout.

I have never liked sound devices low cut, pan and gain on the front plate. Too busy and not needed. I almost never use a pan. And the variable low cut is just a click away on Nomad. 

And Yes the joystick is horrible in my hands. Some people like it but I don't.

 

 

Edited by RadoStefanov
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...I will never ever buy a recorder that uses "membrane-like" soft buttons or shift function for transport function or a transport joystick.  I know that I'm abnormal for this strict criteria, as most everyone else gets over it - just something I have to deal with...

I have to say, I'm not fond of those either. I'd much rather have a solid button for record and stop, which both the SD 7-series has as well as Zaxcom. I grit my teeth on the occasions I have to use an SD 6-series machine. It does the job, but I get a little antsy about the joystick control.

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Can't possibly be more uncomfortable than Zaxcom's 'virtual fader' implementation.

if I need more faders I would add FP8. But in my experience virtual faders are ok for secondary characters that only have line or too. At least I am not bumping in to my main faders while adjusting.

Edited by RadoStefanov
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  • 2 weeks later...

Thanks for all the notes guys. I had a 788T SSD that I sold to get something smaller, lighter and more advanced technically.

I own a Zaxcom Maxx and I have been test driving a Nomad for the past week.

There are a couple things I noticed on the Nomad.

1st,

When I record in polyphony and upload my tracks onto a computer I notice that the sound favors the right side of my computer speaker. This happens on my Maxx as well. The recording is fine when the poliphonic file is exported as multiple tracks on Logic or pro tools. 

Anybody knows why it's only favoring the right side when the poliphonic file is played as a single file?

 

2nd, The headphone return is low and when I bump up the volume in the headphone input it sounds like I am in a bathroom on all the headphone tracks. I have the same issue on my Maxx. Very frustrating when trying to listen to camera return.

3rd, Left input of Return 3/4 does not work.

 

 

 

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When I record in polyphony and upload my tracks onto a computer I notice that the sound favors the right side of my computer speaker. This happens on my Maxx as well. The recording is fine when the poliphonic file is exported as multiple tracks on Logic or pro tools. 

Anybody knows why it's only favoring the right side when the poliphonic file is played as a single file?

internal settings are out of balance in AMS?

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Thanks for all the notes guys. I had a 788T SSD that I sold to get something smaller, lighter and more advanced technically.

I own a Zaxcom Maxx and I have been test driving a Nomad for the past week.

There are a couple things I noticed on the Nomad.

1st,

When I record in polyphony and upload my tracks onto a computer I notice that the sound favors the right side of my computer speaker. This happens on my Maxx as well. The recording is fine when the poliphonic file is exported as multiple tracks on Logic or pro tools. 

Anybody knows why it's only favoring the right side when the poliphonic file is played as a single file?

 

2nd, The headphone return is low and when I bump up the volume in the headphone input it sounds like I am in a bathroom on all the headphone tracks. I have the same issue on my Maxx. Very frustrating when trying to listen to camera return.

3rd, Left input of Return 3/4 does not work.

 

 

 

i dont know what the problem is with your return. Mine is fine and I have been using it to feed from my boom. Sounds great.

As far as the polyphonic  files... what are you using to playback? It makes no sense to play more in the right side...

Edited by RadoStefanov
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Did you check the audio settings in your computer?

Try to download wave agent and play back through it.

Regarding the headphones returns since you are seeing the same issue with both nomad and Maxx I would check the source that is feeding it and check the wiring on the cable.

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No idea why it is favoring the right channel.

I do think one of the Zax Deva's weaknesses is the headphone amp/system which takes some getting use to IMO. Not sure this applies to the Nomad as I don't own one.  I find the SD headphone truer to my ear. 

CrewC

The only side to side test I have done is Maxx vs 633 with a passive mic splitter in to cmc6mk41. The maxx won for pres and headphones preamp.

I was actually surprised how big the difference was. When I worked with 664 however sounded great.

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What wireless gear do you own already? Do you plan on replacing it in the near future?

As you know I'm sure, a major part of Zaxcom is Zaxnet, the integration of Zaxcom wireless, timecode and IFB. If you plan on replacing these other components, then nothing else does what Zaxcom does.

If you do not plan on changing your wireless systems, I would probably go with the 688. Especially if you have slot receivers, the SL-6 is a very powerful interface. I find Sound Devices to be more open in general. 

For or what it's worth to the joystick/membrane button debate, I got used to the joystick but I hate membrane buttons. At least I can feel the joystick and have a tactile response which is all I care about. I also have big hands and got used to the mini faders on the 633 and 688. Anyone who tells you that its a problem hasn't taken the time to get used to it. I have never knocked someone else while going to adjust a mini fader. I'm happy that they're there without the need for a CL-6. Menus are easy to navigate and straightforward. 

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The idea that if you don't own Zaxcom wireless you would be better off with a non Zaxcom product is misguided. If you remove the benefits of Zaxnet and just compare each product feature by feature Nomad 12 has many other benefits that make it more than worthy of consideration. 

To use Zaxnet all you need is a ERX2TCD to begin using RF time code distribution and IFB. Zaxcom wireless is not needed to get the benfits of Zaxnet.

The buttons on the Nomad are  not "membrane". Each button has a metal contact that provides a positive contact feel when pressed. The buttons are water proof and we have never had a complaint from a customer regarding the feel that the switch provides. The reliability of the switch panel is excellent and in fact better than other switch technologies.

A "Joystick" and a button are two different things. Buttons are buttons and Joysticks are Joysticks. Lets talk about Zaxnet, MARF and Neverclip. These are the features you will use everyday to make a difference in the audio you deliver to your clients and how professional you feel at the end of the day.

Glenn

 

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Something to consider, and this is my experience (not a blanket statement or fact) 

I used both extensively (in a bag) and eventually chose to buy a Nomad.  The 788 w CL8 produced enough 'stray RF' to significantly affect the range of my Blk 25 lectros (411's) whereas the Nomad has no affect on them that I can see.

This is off topic but I want to ask if your cables from the 411 to the 788 had their shield tied to the connector shell?  I made a set like this for my 788t w CL-8 and it seems to be fine. I have used Block 19,20, 25 and 26 in the bag with the 788.

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The only side to side test I have done is Maxx vs 633 with a passive mic splitter in to cmc6mk41. The maxx won for pres and headphones preamp.

I was actually surprised how big the difference was. When I worked with 664 however sounded great.

I was comparing the Deva 4 to the 744t and 633. I'm sure that Zax has improved the headphone system in the newer units.

CrewC

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"...yes it is true that I will never ever buy a recorder that uses [a] "membrane-like" soft buttons or shift function for transport function..."

Assuming this comment refers to the Nomad, I'll point out that a user setting determines whether or not pressing the shift key is required for the record, stop, and play buttons. Once this setting is made, it remains until it is changed or the software is revised. Personally, I think this should be the Nomad's factory default setting, allowing instant one-finger recording right out of the box, and it also reduces the chance of inadvertent timecode changes, but the import point is that it can be setup to operate whichever way the operator prefers. The advantage of a processor controlled mixer/recorder like the Nomad is that the user can have choices about what the buttons and switches and other controls do. Some see this as complexity and some see it as versatility. Both are correct. Since the original post was about comparing the Nomad to the Sound Devices 688 it should be mentioned that the 688 is also a processor controlled device with some of the controls having multiple user-selected functions.

Of course, both the Nomad and the 688 are great machines and both have been chosen by accomplished professionals and both are used daily in high-stakes productions. A difference worth pointing out is that there has been a fairly consistent design difference between Zaxcom and Sound Devices, where Sound Devices tends to design their products in such a way that seem more familiar to people coming from analog equipment, and Zaxcom, beginning with their first location sound products - the Deva recorders - have always made processor controlled devices and configured them with that in mind. Which design philosophy is the better choice? I'll defer to our Senator, who I believe has the best answer: "It depends".

Edited by Glen Trew
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A difference worth pointing out is that there has been a fairly consistent design difference between Zaxcom and Sound Devices, where Sound Devices tends to design their products in such a way that seem more familiar to people coming from analog equipment, and Zaxcom, beginning with their first location sound products - the Deva recorders - have always made processor controlled devices and configured them with that in mind. Which design philosophy is the better choice? I'll defer to our Senator, who I believe has the best answer.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a "Mercedes vs. BMW" comparison. Both are good machines with more similarities than differences, and each can do a good job in similar price ranges. I think individual users have to try one out for a day or two and decide which works best for their specific situation. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Nomad has more features, is smaller & lighter which ia a bonus for bag work. SD file structure/Metadata editing is much more thought out and simple in my opinion.  A lot of broadcast shows tend to ask for a SD recorder although  I've never had anyone refuse my Nomad though, after "educating" the client. 

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The first time I picked up a 442, I felt a surge of military-grade confidence in it's durability...it is a hardened piece of gear and I like that. Now, I don't mean this next statement pejoratively, but I didn't get that same feeling when I started checking out Zaxcom gear...it left me feeling anxious about drops, and splashes.

My next purchase will be a 664.

best,

Steven

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The first time I picked up a 442, I felt a surge of military-grade confidence in it's durability...it is a hardened piece of gear and I like that. Now, I don't mean this next statement pejoratively, but I didn't get that same feeling when I started checking out Zaxcom gear...it left me feeling anxious about drops, and splashes.

My next purchase will be a 664.

best,

Steven

 

Im selling my 664 let me know if you are currently in the market for one.  Link is below.

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