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1 hour ago, GlennP said:

set up in one of the less stable tc modes on the f8?? 

I would say there were only one right and several wrong TC settings. Not some settings being less stable. But considering the relatively little amount of offset my guess would be the lack of internal battery to run the TC when shut down and the operator not knowing about this "feature".

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Fred: On a FB group page for mixers, one of the members said that he had been working with Zoom for months, giving them feedback on what pros are looking for.  Let's hope you are right and the manage

You sure it was the recorder and not the battery? I used the f8 a couple of years ago without problems in worse conditions.

Once we (I) realized the problem, everything was changed, even units on the shelf, theory be Damned. Units that come in for repair are also updated. This is a mandatory, no charge, no time limit updat

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8 hours ago, JenceF said:

I would say there were only one right and several wrong TC settings. Not some settings being less stable. But considering the relatively little amount of offset my guess would be the lack of internal battery to run the TC when shut down and the operator not knowing about this "feature".

Page 89 in the manual explains the TC modes. Different settings for different reasons.

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9 hours ago, Olle Sjostrom said:

Really wishing this won't actually happen, but I'm guessing that soon enough, if not already, there'll be a USB midi mixer compatible with ipad so you c can use the F8 on a cart with a sort of mixer with faders.

Hoping this post jinxes it

😂😂😂😂

12 hours ago, chrismedr said:

the way you describe this project, to me user error appears much more likely then equipment failure.

and even if it was equipment failure, I'd still call it user error not to do a workflow test and not to spot a 2-3second offset over 21 days (you can call out loud the seconds on the recorder display and every cam operator checks if he sees the same on his camera display/viewer).

hiring a pro? now that's a novel idea too...

Yeah the poor guy using it was thrown into the lions den on that gig. Not much experience, new equipment with too many options for tc but only really 1, no workflow test ( the final bits of gear arrived like a day before they left ) and no one to ask on location. 

Now i reckon its not the lions den but under the bus ...

I asked them what about the DIT. You DIT every day for hours. You are like using totally new kit with a new guy and a new workflow why didn t DIT check on day 1 that everything was hunky dory like sounding good and syncing. The answer...Ah we just copy files.....

 

The mind boggles

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On 5/22/2016 at 1:06 AM, Levente Udud said:

Yeapp, if you don't power it down, its timecode is quite steady.

 

Ah glad to see people referring to my old TC test!

The RTC in the F8 is rock solid and has a coin battery that keeps it in time. When the unit powers up the TC always re-syncs to the RTC. If you're in a non-drop frame TC and you power down the unit for awhile then power up, your TC will be out due to the relationship between NDF TC and real time...they don't elapse at the same rate.

I haven't tested this theory against a drop frame TC though so it may still get out of sync after a power cycle.

F8 has no camera return built in. I added a sescom A/B box to switch between F8 and camera return and it's great!

Mixing on F8 is tough. Definitely a better tracker than mixer but still usable for a decent mix on a couple channels at a time in the bag, and a couple more on a cart.

F8 is a damn decent tool that is less power hungry than most recorders and has basically all the features of the SDs and ZAXs. I've been using it in place of my Nomad since December and I only miss a few things. Also, I'm getting the same rates using it as I was with my Nomad, and no complaints from post.

 

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13 hours ago, deep owl said:

Ah glad to see people referring to my old TC test!

The RTC in the F8 is rock solid and has a coin battery that keeps it in time. When the unit powers up the TC always re-syncs to the RTC. If you're in a non-drop frame TC and you power down the unit for awhile then power up, your TC will be out due to the relationship between NDF TC and real time...they don't elapse at the same rate.

I haven't tested this theory against a drop frame TC though so it may still get out of sync after a power cycle.

F8 has no camera return built in. I added a sescom A/B box to switch between F8 and camera return and it's great!

Mixing on F8 is tough. Definitely a better tracker than mixer but still usable for a decent mix on a couple channels at a time in the bag, and a couple more on a cart.

F8 is a damn decent tool that is less power hungry than most recorders and has basically all the features of the SDs and ZAXs. I've been using it in place of my Nomad since December and I only miss a few things. Also, I'm getting the same rates using it as I was with my Nomad, and no complaints from post.

 

Sescom solution sounds like you ve got the camera return issue licked. 

How do you use it in practice? Line up cam and moxer with tone then flick between inputs on the sescom to set up then do the same during the gig or somethibg else?? Would be nice to know. 

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9 hours ago, GlennP said:

Sescom solution sounds like you ve got the camera return issue licked. 

How do you use it in practice? Line up cam and moxer with tone then flick between inputs on the sescom to set up then do the same during the gig or somethibg else?? Would be nice to know. 

Yeah, it's a decent solution. I might try to add a volume pot to it sometime to make it even better!

As for lining up F8 output to camera return...I don't really. It seems like camera returns are always pretty quiet as compared to mixer HP outs, so I just turn up the cameras HP volume to the top and put the F8 HP knob to where I like it.
That's one of the things I miss on Nomad is the ability to boost the cam return by something like 30db. Gives you a way to get close to matching.

13164458_1720477381570141_13875535800175

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I saw the guys who went out on the job i mentioned previously today. We worked through the kit with another freelancer. The f8 was set to int free run (rtc the most accurate ????) But the guy was syncing the tentacles. We found a broken 3.5 to bnc that was an intermittant fault. Then we discovered one of the tentacles would not jam properly. It was always 3 seconds behind whatever we did.  We didnt have time to hook it up to the mac and check it before we went to film again (nomad not f8). 

 

So seemingly 3 problems causing drift

 

F8 setting

1 intermittant faulty lead

1 tentacle delivering a constant 3 sec offset. 

 

 

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It'll be interesting to find out the cause for this.

I don't think the TC setting on the f8 was wrong, though. On its own, each setting should be as accurate as the other, so this is an unlikely cause. Maybe the settings didn't match the Tentacle's setting, but then it would have been a user error.

Same with the broken cable. The Tentacle's LED will only change from red to green if good and matching TC is received. If the user didn't check that, it's his error.

How did you discover that one Tentacle was offset by 3 seconds? How did you determine that the Tentacle was broken and not the other device?

I would like to jump to a conclusion as quickly as you did and present you with my three causes for the drift:

User error

User error

User error

;-)

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On 28 June 2015 at 4:50 AM, chrisnewton said:

I notice that the detent mark on the meters is -12 rather than -20 like many other machine we use. There is also a marker point at -18 on the meter scale. The -12 line up mark seems to becoming more of a "standard" for many newer devices, DSLRs for example, the other Zoom models and the like (Tascam DR 60/70 etc.). No big deal. At least there are numerical markings to show how much head room you have. The resolution on the meter scale is finer between -12 and 0 also (1/2 db steps). I actually think this is a good thing, as that area is where we are usually mixing things. I never saw much need for fine resolution between -30 and -20. my 2 cents.

Chris, if my memory serves me correctly wasn't there a -12 mark on a Fostex PD4?

 

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Both tentacles jammed from Nomad. Both jammed via good lead. Both started in jam mode flashing red then green. One unit matches tc on the nomad and f8 takes that in free run and matches both the nomad and the 2 cameras slaved to that tentacle in a v short test.  One constantly on offset no matter what it feeds or how many times we tried to jam.  Appeared to jam but as I said we had go film so couldn t investigate further by putting tentacle on the mac. This is not my kit. Not my f8 or tentacles. I was in the prod office and then guy brought the kit out to ask our opinion. We had a production to go on so had only a few minutes to help. 

 

So whatever tc mode the f8 is accurate? Every mode accurate to 0.2 as zoom claim?

Broken lead intermittant nc on it. 

I ve probably learnt a valuable lesson here.

 

 

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I'm sure that with more time you'll find out what happened. Especially with the offset Tentacle, a feature they don't have, afaik.

By the way, with the latest firmware you don't need a Mac anymore you can use your phone to read out and change your Tentacle's settings (and that of your friend, too).

Did you swap over the two Tentacles?

How could one TC mode be less accurate than another? They're all feeding off the same quartz. Could only be a software issue, which is always a possibility, of course, but that should have been fixed by now.

Broken cable and no spare is user error.

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They had 3 tentacles but 1 was already returned to the manufacturer faulty. The guys didn t say what the fault was. So they only took 2 out. 

We used the 'good' on our shoot this weekend jammed from Nomad and set up on Canon xf305. Totally solid and adds no weight.  

I couldn t test the 'bad' tentacle. The prod company are all apple and only had 4 way 3.5mm. Android requires usb OTG so i hence didnt check. My bad for not having this cable to hand to help out a guy while I was there for another reason entirely ie  being the DoP.  User error I guess. 😕

I have joined the f8 user group on facebook. It seems like a good resource. 

Anyway now I ll go back behind my viewfinder and pipe down. After all I'm only camera dept....

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  • 4 weeks later...

Everyone, new fiormware. Mainly bug fixes

https://www.zoom.co.jp/F8_update

System version 2.10 for the Zoom F8 has been released. The firmware update includes the following :

 

■ Function Update

1. Added phantom power setting options to continue supply of phantom power in playback mode.

 

■ Bug Fixes

 

1. Following SD card performance test, sometimes SD card shows NG status without reason.

2. Changes to Ubits mode settings do not display correctly after restarting the F8.

3. The time stamp of recording file displayed on PC/Mac is shifted to incorrect time depending on the time zone setting of PC/Mac.

4. Noise is generated when changing from recording mode to playback mode.

5. When repeat connections and cut-off’s of Bluetooth’s iOS device occur, sometimes the F8 cannot connect to such iOS device.

6. Response of the F8 becomes slow when the following operation is repeated : Press Rec key – press Pause key and cancel it – press Rec key again to start a new take.

 

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On 24/6/2016 at 3:29 PM, hiro nakamura said:

I was helping a friend purchasing the SD cards for a F8. I just realized that all the cards are slow speed cards... It's really difficult to find in the market... 

 

Slow card seems to have less compatibilty issues and shouldn't affect recording performance

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I am a few days away from the end of a month long feature shoot that I've been using a Zoom F8 as my main recorder on and I wanted to share my experience with it, a kind of review if you will. I used the recorder as I believe it is best used and that is as a standalone recorder and I had a 552 mixer in front. I did not use any of the mixer or pan or output functions and my review will not include them.

Overall the the F8 has performed very well. I never had any unexpected issues, power outages, lost or corrupted files, timecode issues or anything that really caused me problems so well done Zoom on creating a extremely high functioning product. There are however a number of things that I will mention that could be improved with the machine. I will refrain from mentioning any hardware functionality or build quality as I realised this is where you find the discrepancy between a $4000+ recorder and a $1000 recorder. But there are a number of software changes that I would recommend for the next firmware update based on my 25 straight days of using the F8.

Firstly monitor modes. This is a big one. There is only one headphone monitor mode and it is buried in the menu screen requiring a number of clicks and scrolls to get there. Once you're finally in the headphone menu you need to click and scroll through the matrix to select which channel go to your L and R and it is certainly not a quick process. I would love to be able to save a few different preset monitor modes to quickly swap. For example I would often have my boom in the left and 2 wireless in the right but often I'd want to hear just the wireless in each ear or a mono mix of the wireless to compare relative levels. There was no quick and easy way of doing this. I would highly recommend shortcut to monitor modes or even better being able to flip through monitor modes without leaving the main recording screen. For example press+turn of Select Encoder currently does not have a function. That would be a great way to access saved monitor modes.

This brings me to my next main issue; shortcuts. In particular clearing the peak indicator which requires you to press stop+5 buttons. There's no way I want to press the stop button during a take but often an enthusiastic clapper would smack the slate and cause my channels to clip at the beginning of a take. Now I'm stuck with the peak indicator for the whole take and there's no way to know if I have an actual peak during the take. A very bad decision for a shortcut. Something more simple like just pressing the Select Encoder or even just pressing the 5 button would work (seeing as you can't unselect a track whilst recording anyway). Another front panel shortcut I'd love is to go directly to Edit Meta Data of the last recorded take. That way you can quickly add notes or make any corrections quickly before the next take.

Another thing that I didn't like was the use the Record button as the "Option" and "Execute" button whilst in the menu. The record button is the most important in the whole machine, I want the record button to do one thing and one thing only and that is to record when it is pressed, whenever it is pressed. I would much prefer that the select encoder or the play button be used as the "Option" have the record button to start recording even when in the menu. That extra second or two that it takes to exit the menu to start recording could cause you to miss a clap or something else that happens quickly or unexpectedly. All these things (to my knowledge) are firmware fixes and from my experience they would greatly improve the functionality of the F8.

There are however a number of really clever inclusions on the F8 that I wasn't expecting. The Dual Channel Rec is awesome. Saved my butt on a few scenes that went from a whisper to a scream. I set the second channel at a lower gain and was able to capture both the whisper and the scream at good levels. The meta data entry and ability to create sound reports is great. I used the Bluetooth control just to try it out and it seemed solid but I was working out of a bag so I pretty much entered into directly via the LCD screen. The track name and scene name shortcuts are extremely useful. But I can't emphasise how useful a monitor mode shortcut would be.

I said I would refrain from reviewing the build quality compared to other more expensive recorders but just for the sake of sharing my experience I will mention some aspects built quality. The nice blue paint had chips and scratches with in the first few days of shooting, it is not at all a durable finish. Also after 3 weeks of shooting the white square on the Stop button and the red circle on the Record button are nearly worn off (see pics). I imagine by the end of the year none of the button will have their corresponding symbols. But as long as they continue to work I can live with it. The plastic buttons feel and look a little cheap but again at the price point I can live with it. But some things for Zoom to consider changing on version 2.0.

But overall I would say it's been a very positive experience and I would highly recommend it as an entry in multitrack recording especially for someone who already owns a 442 or 552.

Ed Denton

mooseaudio.com.au

2250ddf6c686f1009be189dd0b1b4969.jpg7f000913bd393601b54520bd73848939.jpgb3c6e143c42a25808e5d869b4576e5b0.jpgb3c6e143c42a25808e5d869b4576e5b0.jpg6d2f1016780b928617adf06288df7bb0.jpg91f6b98354b5ae69d3c2f6779504b2b1.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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17 hours ago, Ed Denton said:

I am a few days away from the end of a month long feature shoot that I've been using a Zoom F8 as my main recorder on and I wanted to share my experience with it, a kind of review if you will. I used the recorder as I believe it is best used and that is as a standalone recorder and I had a 552 mixer in front. I did not use any of the mixer or pan or output functions and my review will not include them.

Overall the the F8 has performed very well. I never had any unexpected issues, power outages, lost or corrupted files, timecode issues or anything that really caused me problems so well done Zoom on creating a extremely high functioning product. There are however a number of things that I will mention that could be improved with the machine. I will refrain from mentioning any hardware functionality or build quality as I realised this is where you find the discrepancy between a $4000+ recorder and a $1000 recorder. But there are a number of software changes that I would recommend for the next firmware update based on my 25 straight days of using the F8.

Firstly monitor modes. This is a big one. There is only one headphone monitor mode and it is buried in the menu screen requiring a number of clicks and scrolls to get there. Once you're finally in the headphone menu you need to click and scroll through the matrix to select which channel go to your L and R and it is certainly not a quick process. I would love to be able to save a few different preset monitor modes to quickly swap. For example I would often have my boom in the left and 2 wireless in the right but often I'd want to hear just the wireless in each ear or a mono mix of the wireless to compare relative levels. There was no quick and easy way of doing this. I would highly recommend shortcut to monitor modes or even better being able to flip through monitor modes without leaving the main recording screen. For example press+turn of Select Encoder currently does not have a function. That would be a great way to access saved monitor modes.

This brings me to my next main issue; shortcuts. In particular clearing the peak indicator which requires you to press stop+5 buttons. There's no way I want to press the stop button during a take but often an enthusiastic clapper would smack the slate and cause my channels to clip at the beginning of a take. Now I'm stuck with the peak indicator for the whole take and there's no way to know if I have an actual peak during the take. A very bad decision for a shortcut. Something more simple like just pressing the Select Encoder or even just pressing the 5 button would work (seeing as you can't unselect a track whilst recording anyway). Another front panel shortcut I'd love is to go directly to Edit Meta Data of the last recorded take. That way you can quickly add notes or make any corrections quickly before the next take.

Another thing that I didn't like was the use the Record button as the "Option" and "Execute" button whilst in the menu. The record button is the most important in the whole machine, I want the record button to do one thing and one thing only and that is to record when it is pressed, whenever it is pressed. I would much prefer that the select encoder or the play button be used as the "Option" have the record button to start recording even when in the menu. That extra second or two that it takes to exit the menu to start recording could cause you to miss a clap or something else that happens quickly or unexpectedly. All these things (to my knowledge) are firmware fixes and from my experience they would greatly improve the functionality of the F8.

There are however a number of really clever inclusions on the F8 that I wasn't expecting. The Dual Channel Rec is awesome. Saved my butt on a few scenes that went from a whisper to a scream. I set the second channel at a lower gain and was able to capture both the whisper and the scream at good levels. The meta data entry and ability to create sound reports is great. I used the Bluetooth control just to try it out and it seemed solid but I was working out of a bag so I pretty much entered into directly via the LCD screen. The track name and scene name shortcuts are extremely useful. But I can't emphasise how useful a monitor mode shortcut would be.

I said I would refrain from reviewing the build quality compared to other more expensive recorders but just for the sake of sharing my experience I will mention some aspects built quality. The nice blue paint had chips and scratches with in the first few days of shooting, it is not at all a durable finish. Also after 3 weeks of shooting the white square on the Stop button and the red circle on the Record button are nearly worn off (see pics). I imagine by the end of the year none of the button will have their corresponding symbols. But as long as they continue to work I can live with it. The plastic buttons feel and look a little cheap but again at the price point I can live with it. But some things for Zoom to consider changing on version 2.0.

But overall I would say it's been a very positive experience and I would highly recommend it as an entry in multitrack recording especially for someone who already owns a 442 or 552.

Ed Denton

mooseaudio.com.au

2250ddf6c686f1009be189dd0b1b4969.jpg7f000913bd393601b54520bd73848939.jpgb3c6e143c42a25808e5d869b4576e5b0.jpgb3c6e143c42a25808e5d869b4576e5b0.jpg6d2f1016780b928617adf06288df7bb0.jpg91f6b98354b5ae69d3c2f6779504b2b1.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ed, You are doing something I couldn't do. I would be a nervous wreck with that setup. My hats off to you. Just the HP part would hinder me. That dual record you mention, is that different than say any other recorder just sending to a separate track with less gain? 

Thank you, Martin

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The F8 monitor options were the deal breaker for me. My favourite Hp selector is on the Nagra vi but the 633 is also very good with RTN, PFL and FAV available instantly and everything else including, any combination you want to create, is on a dedicated rotary selector. Those 4 toggle switches and rotary selector easily worth the extra money.

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On 2016年6月27日 at 4:48 PM, efksound said:

Slow card seems to have less compatibilty issues and shouldn't affect recording performance

not easy to find out these days. I went to a second hand market, bought one 32G Kingston with written 4, but the seller only has one left. That made me still put a unverified card in the second slot. :) 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'll update from v2.0 to that new update with hope that it fixes my pre-roll issue; anybody checked if the 6 seconds pre-roll actually works on their unit ? Mine doesn't... :/ Otherwise, I found Transcend SD XC I 64Gb 600X class10 cards that work great.

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