pindrop Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Was confronted with this little rig the other day - Sony A7S with Atomos Shogun. Claims to do timecode, but without any input/output terminal, however it does have a Genlock BNC !? Timecode optionally embedded in HDMI output Sets whether or not to layer the TC (time code) information on the output signal via the HDMI terminal when outputting the signal to other professional-use devices. but then says - When [TC Output] is set to [On], the image may not be output properly to the TV or recording device. In such cases, set [TC Output] to [Off]. Good job I took my timecode slate. Plus the Shogun can - Audio: The Shogun can record 12 channels of digital audio embedded in the SDI signal, and 8 channels of digital audio embedded in the HDMI signal. Super......! It does have XLR ins for two channels though, and proper controls for audio in via the touchscreen, which is fairly easy to navigate. Edited July 22, 2015 by pindrop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Atmos is made in Australia, so I don't know how their support is for America. But you can contact them on their website and ask about how timecode is handled: http://www.atomos.com/support/ I agree, too many of these outboard boxes make timecode and audio much too difficult. It should be completely intuitive, well-labeled, and obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Thanks Marc, I haven't come across a way to deal with or interact with (jam) timecode embedded in HDMI. And when the Sony manual itself says - When [TC Output] is set to [On], the image may not be output properly to the TV or recording device. In such cases, set [TC Output] to [Off]. It doesn't seem very helpful or hopeful! Anyone? Edited July 22, 2015 by pindrop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 Shogun doesn't have separate timecode input but relies on embedded timecode from camera. Since A7s doesn't have timecode input, there's no way to jam to external reference, only in-camera free-run. If a professional timecode workflow is a must, they selected the wrong hardware. Would either have to change the camera to something with a timecode input or use the Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q+ which does offer an LTC input. Shogun is a prosumer product only with respect to timecode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted July 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 (edited) Thanks Tom, that confirms what I discovered on the day, but I'd done a quick bit of research the night before when I was told what the camera was going to be at the last minute, and had thought to bring my timecode slate along which was used. I pointed out that there was not, as far as I could see any way to jam the camera setup. They were happy with using the TC slate.I've never used PluralEyes but that might have been an option. Presumably PluralEyes can handle any number of tracks in poly wavs? (I was recording 7 track poly wavs with a Nomad, boom and six radios) Can PluralEyes be told which track in a poly wav is it's best bet for syncing? That's useful to know about Convergent Design Odyssey 7Q+ I was not aware of that. Couldn't quite work out if SD do something that does 4K with timecode in/out? Also it's puzzling to me why the Atomos Shogun has a Genlock in BNC, but no timecode? Edited July 22, 2015 by pindrop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted July 22, 2015 Report Share Posted July 22, 2015 The announced PIX-E7 will do 4K via HDMI and offers an LTC input, but is not shipping until the fall some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 23, 2015 Report Share Posted July 23, 2015 Timecode doesn't lock devices together, genlock does. As was stated earlier, timecode comes into the Shogun embedded in the HD-SDI stream. To clarify, genlock is the sprocket holes, timecode is the numbering of the frames. I've found Atomos support to be responsive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Wang Posted July 29, 2015 Report Share Posted July 29, 2015 before I sold my SD PIX240, I was using the A7S' HDMI output to feed the PIX240, set the TC value on A7S, PIX 240 receives the TC from A7S through HDMI signal, I was using a QRXIFB(receive TC from PIX240) unit with two TRX900LA(receive TC from QIFB), rec-run or free-run both worked flawlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Man Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 I had a different experience. When i tried to input TC from TCBuddy to Shogun ... The TC display on Shogun kept switching between TC input thru Genlock & the one from camera thru HDMI. After switching the Shogun on/off finally the TC from TCB appeared & got recorded. But the TCR being the one playing out from TCB lagged by few frames from the ones recorded onto Shogun. This was check as I shot TCBuddy's screen onto shogun & later on played back to check the sync... whats the ideal way to connect Ext TC generator to Shogun. Since it was my 1st time on with such a setting so bit confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeds Posted February 17, 2016 Report Share Posted February 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Sound Man said: I had a different experience. When i tried to input TC from TCBuddy to Shogun ... The TC display on Shogun kept switching between TC input thru Genlock & the one from camera thru HDMI. After switching the Shogun on/off finally the TC from TCB appeared & got recorded. But the TCR being the one playing out from TCB lagged by few frames from the ones recorded onto Shogun. This was check as I shot TCBuddy's screen onto shogun & later on played back to check the sync... whats the ideal way to connect Ext TC generator to Shogun. Since it was my 1st time on with such a setting so bit confused. The only way to get timecode into the shogun is through the camera that then feeds the Shogun. The Shogun doesn't have a dedicated LTC input. The camera that is being used therefore has to have the ability to receive timecode from an external device. The Sony A7s does not have that ability which seems to be a common camera used with the shogun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Man Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 10 hours ago, ryanpeds said: The only way to get timecode into the shogun is through the camera that then feeds the Shogun. The Shogun doesn't have a dedicated LTC input. The latest Firmware 6.51 actually enables Shogun to receive LTC from Genlock's BNC port... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeds Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 7 hours ago, Sound Man said: The latest Firmware 6.51 actually enables Shogun to receive LTC from Genlock's BNC port... Good to know that they added that. To bad they didnt think of adding timecode when they initially designed so they could have had a dedicated LTC input instead of sacrificing the genlock input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Man Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 So true but the problem still remains on correct LTC recording... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanpeds Posted February 18, 2016 Report Share Posted February 18, 2016 I'll try to play around with that in the next couple weeks and see what I find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 To confirm the firmware needs to be 6.5.1 or higher to input LTC on the BNC, even though the 6.5 manual says that will take LTC. Had this very issue a few weeks ago - had the camera ops telling me timecode is your (sound) problem so please sort it out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourtelot Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 I am old enough to remember when cameras didn't have audio inputs at all. Well, maybe some of the news cameras of the day, CP16s or maybe Eclairs. Ah, those were the days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 4, 2016 Report Share Posted July 4, 2016 TC is our issue up to the TC connector of the camera. Ask how much the cam folks really want you to be poking around in the menus of their camera trying this and that? If they can't make (or help us make) the TC aspects of their device work then they need to learn how to do this or get diff hardware. Meanwhile, here's a jammed TC slate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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