Hugh Palmer Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Hey everyone. I'm currently on a production with a Red One camera and am having some trouble jamming Timecode directly from the 788t. It's one of my first projects with timecode so I'm very aware that it could be my fault. The 788 is in 24 Hour run. Red settings: Sync OFF, Output OFF, Cross OFF. I am first plugging the machines together but I can't see any timecode input in the 788 without first hitting the output option on the Red. After doing that I am able to jam it and I get a little yellow link icon up the top of the Red's display. At first I thought the battle was won but checking the TC on the display indicates it's off from the 788 by 1 hr 20 mins.. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. I hope that what I've said makes sense to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 How are you "plugging the machines together"? i would suggest using the 788 as your master and jamming the camera from it -BUT- I would not trust the RED to hold time code any better than a wet paper bag, so it would be wise to use a TC box and continuously feed the camera steady time code. I'm not trying to be that guy, but it sounds like you may want to read up on TC a bit. And also maybe read the pertinent parts of the manuals for both the camera and the 788. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Palmer Posted July 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 Im connecting with Lemo-5 to Lemo-5. Yeah I do agree that I need to know more about timecode apart from the few garbled pieces of information I've managed to collect from around the place. Could you recommended any articles? I have read timecode sections of both manuals and am still stumped as to why I can't change the timecode on the Red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 The obvious thing to look for is: are frame rates matching? You've probably looked at camera frame rate in the TC menu and 788 frame rate. With some cameras, there is another setting for "sensor frame rate" that can be different from its "project frame rate", and the sensor frame rate is not in the TC menu with some cams. Or the camera might be on record run TC, so at jam it's ok, but later it's far off. And yes, sound should be TC master, and the RED definitely needs a Lockit or SB-T (jammed to Sound TC) continuously feeding TC. Cam should be set to "external TC". With the last RED ONE I had to work with, procedure was: Go into SYSTEM menu, then PROJECT, then TIMECODE. Tick the "Jam Sync" box, and set Display to "Time Code" (not "Edge Code"). Might have changed if there is new firmware around. And yes, it was the Sound Department explaining the cam's menus to the AC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjafreddan Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 I'm currently on a production with a Red One camera and am having some trouble jamming Timecode directly from the 788t. It's one of my first projects with timecode so I'm very aware that it could be my fault. [...] Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. I hope that what I've said makes sense to you. Already good advice posted, and personally I can't help you with the Red settings. As a general rule, you as the sound mixer/recordist need to be on top of things when it come to Time Code, because nobody else is. So read up on the subject and if you have your own sound kit with a 788T or similar recorder, you should invest in a Time Code system and proper cabling. When embarking on a new project, it's always good to send sound and video files to post as soon as possible, to be able to detect any possible time code problems. Never ever trust the internal time code circuits of cameras unless they have build-in Ambient clocks - which few cameras have. With few exceptions, you should jam sync a Time Code generator with your 788T - Ambient, TCBuddy, Denecke or such - and strap it to the camera. I use a Time Code Buddy system, which I find very versatile, but a simple Time Code generator will do. Good luck Fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Dolinger Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 Also - the RED lemo connections are not wired as with Sound Devices TC cables. It's possible that the camera is getting the wrong data from your cable. There's a lemo -> 3x BNC timecode cable for the RED; I have always worked with this cable. Yellow BNC is TC in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarcanon Posted July 30, 2015 Report Share Posted July 30, 2015 FWIW, all the RED cameras I've worked with accept four-pin LEMO connections. Apparently, this does not hold true for all REDs. But the last two models I recall working with were a Dragon and a Scarlet, and my LockIt was plugging straight into the body (i.e., not via any accessory modules). Your mileage may vary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Palmer Posted July 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 I've just figured it out. I've soldered the Lemo's so that pin two is connected to pin two and pin five is connected to pin five. Obviously this will never work as the out pin will be connected to the out pin and the in to the in... What a nunce. Very unproud of this moment. Still lesson learned at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 31, 2015 Report Share Posted July 31, 2015 FWIW, all the RED cameras I've worked with accept four-pin LEMO connections. Apparently, this does not hold true for all REDs. But the last two models I recall working with were a Dragon and a Scarlet, and my LockIt was plugging straight into the body (i.e., not via any accessory modules). Your mileage may vary. yes, it does vary as the OP was working with a RED One which uses a 5-pin Lemo which is very much compatible to the one Sound Devices and Ambient and others are using for their TC Lemos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 Alexa vs RED camera for timecode. I'm not a Sound mixer but obsessed with sound as that affects the entire film. I was told by a sound mixer that if the camera is an Alexa he can jam sync it with his rig but any RED camera, he would need a TC box. I never bothered to inquiry why until now, but is this due to RED cameras having a TC drift, that Alexas do not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted August 5, 2015 Report Share Posted August 5, 2015 With any camera, I'd prefer to have a timecode jam box to run the camera in continuous jam all day. That way, even if they reboot, come in and out of varispeed, or change batteries, we know the timecode will be reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Alexa vs RED camera for timecode. I'm not a Sound mixer but obsessed with sound as that affects the entire film. I was told by a sound mixer that if the camera is an Alexa he can jam sync it with his rig but any RED camera, he would need a TC box. I never bothered to inquiry why until now, but is this due to RED cameras having a TC drift, that Alexas do not? The answer to your question is "yes." The Alexa has an Ambient timecode system, the Red has one designed by Ronco. +1 for Marc's statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 >The Alexa has an Ambient timecode system, the Red has one designed by Ronco< Ouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 >The Alexa has an Ambient timecode system, the Red has one designed by Ronco< Ouch. I apologize to Ronco for the slight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason A Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 I apologize to Ronco for the slight. No need to apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 Let it out, John, just let it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted August 8, 2015 Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 I really don't mind working with Reds -- the crew usually gets more breaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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