Being on the set vs not being on the set

[Philip Perkins]

Many mixers, I notice, often work at the end of fairly long snakes, to remove themselves from the set as much as is feasable.  There are lots of reasons to do this, among them ambient noise around you while mixing,  staying out of the G+E scrum, not wanting to take up space with a really large rig when one is needed for the job etc.  But I have to say that the older I get the more I dislike being off-set. I find I really prefer to be in the mosh with the talent, camera etc and have gone to a lot of trouble to skinny my stuff down (to bagness even), go wireless with everything and basically be ready to go anywhere and do anything the camera can do.   The ease of communications and sense of being part of the movie-making feel important to me.  I see those old pix of JW on his Hal Ashby movies etc and marvel at how close to the action his setup is, partly made possible by said setup being very small and simple.   How are you folks who are mostly working off customized carts handling this anymore?  Staying way back (outside even)?  Close-ish but not on the set?  Just curious.

phil p

[Tom Visser]

Close-ish, but never too close to the active hot area.  I like to see how they are going to turn and burn, and if I can position myself far enough away that requires minimal or no repo's, then I'll position even a little further out than I would have liked.  Generally I'll figure out where village is going to be and will usually position myself behind them off to one side (don't like being in their LOS ).  Normally the video feed with be tapped off of DIT or village anyways, so that's really my only hardline I need to worry about.  I do like it to be quiet, so my cans monitor feed is pretty clean.  However I also appreciate being a few steps "in it" if I need to step foot in or place foot up someone's *ss.  My "carts" are probably about as small as they come, so allows me to set up with camera if there was a reason to do so.

[VASI]

Production sound mixer and director should sit down together every time as possible. Fundamental action of "direct communication" and "direct collaboration". In the right hand of director. That means, PSM is the right hand of director aka "I am here for you and your vision".

Am I the only one which translate these "moves" into that way?

[Constantin]

Production sound mixer and director should sit down together every time as possible. Fundamental action of "direct communication" and "direct collaboration". In the right hand of director. That means, PSM is the right hand of director aka "I am here for you and your vision".

Am I the only one which translate these "moves" into that way?

It depends. Some directors don't want to be bothered by sound considerations and subsequently don't want us to be nearby. I tend to position myself diagonally behind the director's position, fairly close by so they can easily talk to me (or exchange looks when during a take something happens to the sound. But on the other hand, they can easily ignore me if they want to, and ny own way onto the set or to the director/AD or wherever is fairly short, which I prefer. I try to sit close enough so that I can hear what's going on without headphones. 

And if I need to work quite far away in order to properly hear what's on set and not around it, something is wrong and I'll work to quiet it down

[Jan McL]

Phil, darlin', thanks for bringing this up.

Find my ideas on the subject shift lately toward being more toward the center of the frying pan. Let me rephrase: I don't freak out if I've got to be right beside the village and actually enjoy the change.

Have always preferred private and out of sight. Here's my list of why/advantages:

• I don't want people to hear what I say over coms during a rehearsal, take or setup.
• The village is a raucous spot during rehearsals/takes and that won't change since if something's wrong, they need to talk about it then and there.
• Prefer to wire talent at the cart and a quiet, visually private spot serves that. Many actors come early to be wired because they enjoy the relative peacefulness the remote position affords and it serves their preparation process, a thing for which I have enduring respect and awareness.
• Far away reduces visual distractions. Something moving in my eye line can totally make me screw the mix.
• That's how all my early mentors did it.
• When PA's see me on or going to set they know something's up and pay attention, often alerting the First AD, which is just the way I like it. I'm never too far away that I can't leave the recorder rolling and stride there if something horrible happens during a long take.
• Cart position choice includes first and foremost imagining where to be for the duration, can we get a cable to video, is it close to AC power, then radio reception (will it work from this far away?), eliminating stairs from the equation, closer to the truck / home, and finally weather protection.
• Beer budget control.

What I like about being nearer the fire is: 

• Mixing is less magic and more real. They can see my absolute focus along with the dance that occasionally accompanies fader moves.
• I personally am less easily forgotten later. Remote strategy = invisibility and for a long time that was the way I operated and considered successful politically. Remnant of a survival strategy no longer applicable since I decided invisibility / forgettability wasn't getting me anywhere. At this point, I endeavor to consider staging near the heart of the operation a Personal Appearance with all that entails.
• Eye contact during takes.

There's probably more but...

[Jeff Wexler]

Great topic, Philip! Questions like this one, off the main topic areas of equipment, technical specifications, employment rates, etc., are the ones I really gravitate to. I have this fundamental belief that the personal answers, where do you put your sound cart, can help inform us all on many other issues and can provide useful comment on the current state of our art.

For me, being close to the set, close physically, to the scene, the actors, the director, DP, 1st AD, just feels right. This probably comes from the fact that the first 10 years or so of my career, you had to be close! For some of the younger folks you have to remember that these were the days before Video Assist, before reliable wireless of any sort, very few if any walkie-talkies (maybe 4 with most being used off set by transportation). It was also the time when there were generally good rehearsals, important conversations amongst all departments on the set, etc. Of course the other big factor, as Philip points out, the carts were smaller, there was far less equipment being used (by both sound and camera) so it was quite easy to be on the set.

Now, in today's world, in many cases it is just not feasible to be anywhere near the set, for all the reasons anyone working today will know. Video Assist (or video monitors at the very least) have allowed us a view of the scene through the camera (though this is a view which is markedly different than the view that I have while being on the set), use of multiple cameras on every shot means we would have to communicate, in person with 3 or more Camera Operators, communication amongst most all of the rest of the crew is via walkie-talkies with silent earpieces. Again, the big change is that the carts have gotten much bigger, all the equipment has gotten smaller but we have to use a lot more equipment, wireless has allowed us to not be limited by cable runs (though still "limited" by RF range and difficulties).

I prefer to still be close to the set which is one of the reasons I have kept my sound cart very small, but I have found that I am not able to view the scene, the activity on the set, without relying on a video monitor --- it is just not possible to find a spot right on the set anymore. I have not gone the bag route which would solve some of these problems, but that's just me.

[Philip Perkins]

Yeah video assist…but I guess I'm old and nearsighted enough to not get that much thrill from watching a 7" monitor as opposed to live action--the mic is often too small for me to see in the top of a frame (for instance) until it's too late--we have to work out the frame lines the old fashioned way I think.  In my last cart-o-round I felt like a percentage of the stuff I was making+buying had to do with the distance I'm talking about, and it seemed like it was kind of a distraction from the real task at hand (read: too much cable wrangling.)  In any case, I'm not really talking about stage work or even location exteriors, but smaller jobs shot on practical locations (indies, docs etc) where the architecture is in everyone's way.  Many G+E folks want to have their carts right at or on the set--a wall of steel, so to speak.  In these cases I can recall seeing that my cart would have to be really far from the action, and I didn't like it.  My pref would be to forgo video, go small and get in there with the action.  Yeah, some directors' hackles are raised by sound being visibly there, in that case I have some politicin' to do, and can walk off a bit if need be.  

Re talkback being overheard….I understand the impulse, but the rule I've come to nowadays is that things that want to be said privately might not want to be said at all, or saved for "Miller time".

p

[Olle Sjostrom]

Being mostly a boom operator, I can say that having the mixer close is great. I think it's good that the whole sound team is visible just like any other department. I understand the need for privacy and being a bit off, but for set politics I think it's hard to beat being close. If video is an issue, there are quite a lot of good wireless video good enough for on set applications. 

[old school]

Interesting topic. Having been mentored by Jeff Wexler, Keith Wester, Art Rochester, and Jim Webb (who was miles away from set) in the days before video assist, I've seen the pluses and minuses of each variable. Personally I can do it either way and can enjoy close or far. I do whatever works on the day. It definitely is nice to have visual contact with the AD and Boom Op for non spoken communication,i.e. eye contact and hand signals or knowing wink. I think being flexible is a plus for any person in any department. I can, (or use to) boom regular or goofy foot. I can mix with or without monitors or sides. Not bragging, just saying that no one way is right all the time. Tonight I'm in the middle of the block on Wisteria Lane at Universal Studios. The set is a car going from one end to the other so I'm far away, simi close, close, far away on every shot. 

CrewC

[Rick Reineke]

I prefer to be on-set. but wire the talent in a more private setting.. if there is one.

[mikewest]

Great stuff Jan

Exactly how I feel

Sort out the shot angles so you do not need to move

Stay dry warm and out of drafts or wind

Try to end the day close to your vehicle (lol)

mike

[syncsound]

Close-ish, but never too close to the active hot area.  I like to see how they are going to turn and burn, and if I can position myself far enough away that requires minimal or no repo's, then I'll position even a little further out than I would have liked.  Generally I'll figure out where village is going to be and will usually position myself behind them off to one side (don't like being in their LOS ).  Normally the video feed with be tapped off of DIT or village anyways, so that's really my only hardline I need to worry about.  I do like it to be quiet, so my cans monitor feed is pretty clean.  However I also appreciate being a few steps "in it" if I need to step foot in or place foot up someone's *ss.  My "carts" are probably about as small as they come, so allows me to set up with camera if there was a reason to do so.

+1 on this. Close enough to step in if needed but out of the way. Sometimes I can read village's collective body language about what's going to happen next if they neglect to communicate that.

[Philip Perkins]

I'm kind of over being with the "Villagers", at least on a commercial or corpo job.  I'd rather be in with the folks actually making the movie--helps my concentration, esp if it is a national-spot-sized village...

p

[pvanstry]

I guess what you guys call the village, is called the beach over here. Basically the beach ( for us ) is where the director main monitors are  and where everybody that needs to see the image is. 

Personally if I feel a good relationship with the director ( pleasant and friendly ) I will gravitate around the beach ( within 20' ). If a little "colder relationship" then I will move away of eyesight but still very close by. I believe that filmmaking is about collaboration and quick exchange.  Of course my cart is really small and totally battery operated. 

[Philip Perkins]

I don't mean the director moni--I'd want to give the director some space in any case.  I mean client-ville, or all the sub-producers, hangers on and under-assistant-West-coast-promo-men.  I can't take the non-task-directed chatter anymore.

p

[pvanstry]

Over here, unless I am on a advertising shoot ( which will have a client monitor setup ) every other shoot has one monitor setup only and it is for the director. 

[pkautzsch]

Lately I find it strongly depends on a day's vibes. Being closer to (director/continuity) video screens is great as long as things run smoothly. But if the creative heads get out of control, and communications from AD suffer, I prefer being out of the hot zone. Nobody listens to other departments' issues in such situations anyway, and we get all info we really need via a carefully placed boom mic, and the 7" screens on my cart.

[Reinout Weebers]

 

• I don't want people to hear what I say over coms during a rehearsal, take or setup.
• Prefer to wire talent at the cart and a quiet, visually private spot serves that. Many actors come early to be wired because they enjoy the relative peacefulness the remote position affords and it serves their preparation process, a thing for which I have enduring respect and awareness.
• Far away reduces visual distractions. Something moving in my eye line can totally make me screw the mix.
• When PA's see me on or going to set they know something's up and pay attention, often alerting the First AD, which is just the way I like it. I'm never too far away that I can't leave the recorder rolling and stride there if something horrible happens during a long take.
• Cart position choice includes first and foremost imagining where to be for the duration, can we get a cable to video, is it close to AC power, then radio reception (will it work from this far away?), eliminating stairs from the equation, closer to the truck / home, and finally weather protection.

+1 for the subject, I was always intrigued by set politics, and how to position myself physically... and mentally on set.

Fun fact is that in the Netherlands most heads of the sound department do not sit behind the cart and mix. Simply because there is no money for good boom-op's. So besides the hand full of decent boom op's, most of us will be head of department and boom-op at the same time. So I like to place my cart and assistant as close as possible. Good communication with each other is key in this case.
The mix is not as perfect as a seasoned sound mixer will deliver, but good enough for me and the director to monitor. I prioritize the ISO's and push as hard as I can for a perfect mix with every assistant.

As you said Jan, great list btw, I also don't like all my communication to be heard while rehearsing or setup. Therefore I used a gooseneck mic on the cart for a long time, so whispering would be enough. No anxious looks our way...

Wire talent in a quiet spot +1. I prefer to wire at wardrobe or a greenroom. Although many "say" they don't mind a noisy public spot, in the end they appreciate the effort and focus. I can't agree more on this point.

Further away, and thus less visual distractions? I get that, but if something moves without being absolutely necessary it should be killed..... the movement I mean. No for real. Because I'm on set I can't see everything happening around video village. Therefore I'm really strict towards unnecessary movement/sounds. I know we all are, but it can't be said enough, now and on set. In some cases I like to exaggerate a bit in the beginning of a production, so everyone knows I mean business.

When PA's see me going OFF set they know something's up and pay attention   This physical communication helps allot indeed. During a take I like to have eyecontact with a 1st AD or Director. I'll never make myself invisible (although I would like to have the ability) Frequently I nod my head if something doesn't ruin a take or shake my head when something does. This can results in a running pickup or cut. As you might understand in my case visibility helps.

For cart position, I like it to work for as many shot's as possible, including weather protection, ac power, home.... Radio reception is always difficult. Until now I seem to manage, but many of my colleagues use a battery fed rack on a snake to get the receivers closer to the set for those extra dB's. I presume this was meant in the case of a long snake earlier in the thread.

Nice subject and interesting opinions! Thanks

[traut]

I like being close enough to have an eye line with the director and close enough for good rf reception.

[roundbadge]

Depends on the gig.sometimes big cart outta sight.let boom/3rd run the floor..always got the antennas up high/close for good tx.or in the bag nearby on doc/eng.

sometimes the director is a bud and I'll hang closer,even have low favorite music for them between setups etc.

[we had Miles' "Bitches Brew" bubbling away low on set a couple weeks ago btw scenes.loosened things up a little].

depends on overall vibe,talent,crew,clients on the day.no hard/fast rules.

its like little a game everyday finding the "sweet zone".

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by roundbadge