syncsound Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 This was briefly address in another thread, but I'd like to get some specific feedback from other mixers. On 1099 (invoice gigs), is your lunch on or off the clock? My deal memo says "breaks included", but there has been disagreement with UPMs in the past, and I'm trying to figure out if I misunderstood the language and need to amend my deal memo. To me, "breaks included" means "I'm on the clock from call to taillights (in a non-portal-to-portal job)". I did this due to a couple instances where we were put "on break" for a couple of hours (waiting for light, talent availability, whatever). You end up on set for 14 hours and only paid for 12. But staying on the clock during a :30 minute provided lunch has ruffled some feathers before. Do I not understand it, or do I need to be more specific in my deal memo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I did this due to a couple instances where we were put "on break" for a couple of hours (waiting for light, talent availability, whatever). You end up on set for 14 hours and only paid for 12. Oh meng, Im watching this thread. Thanx for bringing this up as its been on my mind. (2) hour long lunches means a 14 hour day, but no overtime ? I don't follow best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Honestly, it's all up to whatever you negotiate with each production ahead of time. My understanding is that for most union shows 30 minutes lunch is off the clock. I, however, work portal to portal, and lunch is always on the clock for all my work (reality, doc, corporate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 It's that thing where clients have tried to parse what I would call "moving labor" versus being on standby. "You were given a long break, therefore OT didn't kick in." I used a 14 hour example, but it often comes up with 45+ minute lunches, even though they were provided, which is usually counted as 30 minutes. Honestly, it's all up to whatever you negotiate with each production ahead of time. My understanding is that for most union shows 30 minutes lunch is off the clock. Agreed. I'm specifically talking about non-union, 1099 invoice work. I, however, work portal to portal, and lunch is always on the clock for all my work (reality, doc, corporate). I put "breaks included" on my deal memo, but that doesn't seem to communicate it all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I state my rates as 10 or 12 hours portal to portal (portal being either the hotel if travel, PO if local, or my place otherwise). Seems to never be misunderstood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 I state my rates as 10 or 12 hours portal to portal (portal being either the hotel if travel, PO if local, or my place otherwise). Seems to never be misunderstood. That feels like an effective solution. Unfortunately, I'd be surprised if people went for it for local work where I live. The market in PDX has its issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Off the clock….but 2+ hr lunches (usually to wait for the sun etc) isn't something they get to plan. A genuine unforeseen problem causing a delay--let's see what we can do. Planning that kind of trick--no way. p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted October 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Off the clock….but 2+ hr lunches (usually to wait for the sun etc) isn't something they get to plan. A genuine unforeseen problem causing a delay--let's see what we can do. Planning that kind of trick--no way. p If it's a provided lunch, do you let production determine how long it lasts? As mentioned, it's usually 30 mins if provided, but I've had two gigs that announced that our lunch would be longer, even though they were catered (60 mins on one, 45 mins on another). Essentially, they were telling us when we were and weren't on the clock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Sonnenfeld Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Jose, how have you been able to negotiate portal to portal so effectively? Especially in NYC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 reading this and other discussions on related topics: I feel it is high time to reorganise the thought that the work we do is like a worker in a factory. And therefore time cards, time-off, time on, over time etc etc - basically a TIME based factor, ASSUMING that it is still LABOUR one is talking about. What we do is NOT LABOUR, or not even SKILLED labour, but MUCH MORE BEYOND THIS. I feel it is important for US to feel this. Our rates should be independent of this kind of labor-associated thinking and yet protect us for long hours etc, which is a second stage of thinking. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atheisticmystic Posted October 14, 2015 Report Share Posted October 14, 2015 Our rates should be independent of this kind of labor-associated thinking and yet protect us for long hours etc, which is a second stage of thinking. -vin What ideas do you have ? best, Steven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 Jose, how have you been able to negotiate portal to portal so effectively? Especially in NYC? I don't know man. I'm actually surprised to learn that I'm the exception, not the rule. This is what my rate card and deal memo states, I've never had any fight back from my clients. I guess I'm just lucky, but honestly, I think it makes sense. The production sets the schedule. They decide when I go to lunch, and when I come back, so either way, I'm still on their time. Thus they should pay me for it. If it was my time, and I got to choose when I go for lunch and for how long, then I could understand lunch being off the clock. But alas, as I said in the beginning, it will always depend on what you negotiate ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'd think a single "lunch" break of 30-60 minutes would be acceptable for production to deduct from the day. They can't deduct time because of scheduling issues. If they deduct an hour, you better have a FULL hour. If lunch takes longer than an hour, you'd still only deduct an hour When I was a video coordinator, music videos would routinely shoot 16+ hours and would try to avoid paying OT by saying there were hours in the middle where my crew "weren't doing anything". They try anything. Don't let them succeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 They try anything. Don't let them succeed. +111 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codyman Posted October 15, 2015 Report Share Posted October 15, 2015 If the call is say 8am, I invoice OT generally for anything over 8pm-ish. That being said, if I am taillights at 8:15pm I usually let it slide but if it's 9,10pm and it's now hours after supposed wrap time, I charge OT, ESPECIALLY if there is a forced call the next day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted October 17, 2015 Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 I have mixed experiences and every job is different. Many of my clients, both corporate, commercials, and even on some indie features, 12 hours means call to tail lights. Others dont include lunch, so a day is really 12 1/2 hours. Smart ADs/UPMs understand that if the day exceeds 12 hours, they'll have to push the next days call. If this is their only motivation, it's still better than trying to squeeze more hours into a day. On single day projects I dont mind if it isnt counted, but being based in Los Angeles where I have to spend a couple hours in traffic, every bit of time counts, and I need time to sleep and charge batteries. If they cut into that, then I'll be tired and grumpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted October 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2015 Thanks for all the input. Right now I'm leaning towards updating the language on my deal memo to something like this: "For local work, hours are counted from call time as listed on the call sheet to 'tail lights' (gear fully packed and driving away from set), less a (30) minute provided lunch, or a (60) minute walk-away lunch. For distant work (beyond 30 miles), hours are counted portal-to-portal, less a (30) minute provided lunch, or a (60) minute walk-away lunch." This feels like an equitable compromise to meet client's expectations while protecting myself from the "surprise hour long lunches" sprung onto us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipWestbrook Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 The "break" in the middle of the day won't fly. My 10 or 12 hr day starts at call and the clock doesn't stop. Production is buying a block of my time during which they are free to do whatever they want with it. A ten hour day is an 8 hour day plus 1 hour lunch plus 30 min set up and break down. People will try and get what they can out of you. Not my problem if they didn't plan well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syncsound Posted October 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2015 The "break" in the middle of the day won't fly. My 10 or 12 hr day starts at call and the clock doesn't stop. Production is buying a block of my time during which they are free to do whatever they want with it. A ten hour day is an 8 hour day plus 1 hour lunch plus 30 min set up and break down. People will try and get what they can out of you. Not my problem if they didn't plan well. I agree in theory, and my former deal memo stated as such (or so I thought). Do you not indicate a lunch break on a timecard for W2 jobs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 For me, lunch breaks are off the clock and either 30 min or 1 hour. After 1 hour I am back on the clock, even if there is no work for me to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 1, 2015 Report Share Posted November 1, 2015 What ideas do you have ? best, Steven STOP per day billing. Charge per project with caveats that apply for each day - so that overtime is accounted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Thomas Rice Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 I've always told production that my 12 hour day starts at the call time on the call sheet and that they have me until 12 hours after that. However long they want to eat lunch or wait for sun doesn't affect my 12 hour day. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted November 10, 2015 Report Share Posted November 10, 2015 Last week got offered a gig for this past weekend where lunch was off the clock, and while I tried to negotiate differently, they wouldn't do otherwise. The rest of the agreement was quite pleasing, including the pay rate. I took the job. Moral of the story: it's situational, and even some rules can be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toy Robot Posted November 12, 2015 Report Share Posted November 12, 2015 ... Moral of the story: it's situational, and even some rules can be broken. Indeed; and conversations like this are the very things that allow us to either remain rigid or flex for the right client or situation. Props to all for keeping these conversations open and civil. The more information we have about what others are doing, the better we can navigate our industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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