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50fps On Sony F7s in 4K - Timecode Question


workingsound
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Hi Guys 

Just had a job come up that is shot on a Sony F7 at 50fps shooting at 4K.  Just wanted to double check time code settings with you guys.  Am I right in saying I set my 788 and Lockits boxes to 25fps as it is half of the 50fps and then should all be good in post?

I'm assuming all audio would be recorded off board only as the sound drops of when the camera is in off speed?

I've done a screen grab of the tech spec they have sent over if you're interested in having a look.

Thanks for your help. 

Screen shot 2015-10-15 at 19.17.41.png

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RE. the in-camera audio recording, the FS7 will cease recording audio only if the "Slow & Quick Motion" feature is enabled. When shooting 50FPS in the S&Q mode, the clip is filmed at 50 FPS but flagged to playback by default at 25 FPS, effectively creating the slow motion natively in-camera. This is why the audio recording is dropped.

However, the FS7 will also shoot 50FPS in regular non-S&Q mode, in which case the clips will be filmed at 50 FPS and also flagged to playback at normal speed 50 FPS. In this mode the camera will still record audio as normal, as the clip is just a regular speed clip at a higher framerate. The editor can then of course manually slow the clip playback to 25FPS if he wants, replicating the exact same effect as if the S&Q mode had been used,

I'd say it would be a bizarre idea to film every clip on a given shoot in S&Q mode, so I'd speculate they will use the regular speed 50FPS mode, in which case camera will still record audio. You should probably check this with production, though.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 years later...
On 10/15/2015 at 8:27 PM, workingsound said:

Just had a job come up that is shot on a Sony F7 at 50fps shooting at 4K.

I have a shoot coming up by the end of the week, same setting, PAL land. How did you manage to get it done?

Cameraman says they've been using a TC syncbox and a guidetrack to cam so far, but does not remember which TC settings they were using. I doubt, an FS7 will accept TC @50 fps at all.

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These kind of things always raise red flags with me, might be that someone just copy pasted some settings without knowing anything. Make sure to double check if they really want shots with dialogue recorded at 50 fps. Maybe they're just afraid their hard disks won't fill up enough with 25 fps. If they really mean it I would make sure everything is manually slated.

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9 hours ago, axel said:

 I doubt, an FS7 will accept TC @50 fps at all.

 

I agree with this, it’s unlikely and you should find out. 

Also, I had a dop once who got really upset that  the TC display on the Alexa would resort to showing totally different TC values. I guess he was using it as his personal clock. Had a high volume discussion about this with me across the entire set with everyone waiting for us. I assured him this was normal and it’s just what it is. He wouldn’t let go and kept complaining. In the end it told him it’s his camera so why are you getting upset with me. He‘s a nice guy normally, just not in the heat of the moment. 

Anyway, just pehaps be aware of this and inform whoever might be bothered...

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23 hours ago, Christian Spaeth said:

might be that someone just copy pasted some settings without knowing anything

they have been shooting with that setup at several other occasions with different sound people every time. The camera guy says TC has worked with 50 fps but is not sure about the settings. It is unclear how they handled the post workflow or if the footage has been synced up at all so far. It is a sports doc where they want to be able to use a 50 fps slo-mo any time. Meanwhile I found, that Tentacle claims it's sync software can handle 50 fps. So maybe I'll use a Lanc logger and send the second TC output to audio channel 2 on the FS7. Slating will not be an option I guess.

 

Anyway, I'd like to know how others did the job with the same requirements. I guess I'm not the first one here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

to keep you updated:

 

We did the shoot and the client company confirmed the FS7 accepts 25 fps TC in "locked" 50 fps mode. In this mode it also records sound on camera. There is also a variable high speed mode, where sound recording and TC input cannot be used.

 

I asked about post workflow and they go with Premiere pro. It was days 19-21 of a docu series, they had already edited several episodes using sound from external recorders with the very same setup. Only for interviews they switched to 25 fps.

I had a Tiny Lockit attached to cam and also fed them a scratch track via a G3 hop. Client was happy.

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Over 5 months now, we record both audio and timecode (FS7) at 50 FPS without a problem.

They choose 50 FPS in 1080i, because at 25 FPS the viewfinder was not workable (glitch image when camera was in movement).

I think that problem is in the design of FS7 viewfinder (maybe some older version models).

 

Imagine to have a glitch audio at headphones because of problematic headphone amp and you have to listen it through one of the main output. Return and refund, now. lol

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Thanks for this thread. Worked with an Alexa Mini recently (first time). camera set to 48fps. wouldn't take audio or TC. Is there a setting in the Mini menu to accomplish what the FS7 does? note: not sure if it was really 48 or really a multiple of 23.98. First time for AC also. We were shooting outside in -25C, so not keen to fart around with menu, minus gloves. We slapped the sticks and hoped for the best.

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3 hours ago, chrisnewton said:

Thanks for this thread. Worked with an Alexa Mini recently (first time). camera set to 48fps. wouldn't take audio or TC. Is there a setting in the Mini menu to accomplish what the FS7 does? 

 

No, not really. The Mini switches to rec run TC when it’s recording at higher or lower speeds. So if you could find a workflow for that it works

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  • 2 months later...
On 12/5/2018 at 11:02 AM, Constantin said:

 

I agree with this, it’s unlikely and you should find out. 

Also, I had a dop once who got really upset that  the TC display on the Alexa would resort to showing totally different TC values. I guess he was using it as his personal clock. Had a high volume discussion about this with me across the entire set with everyone waiting for us. I assured him this was normal and it’s just what it is. He wouldn’t let go and kept complaining. In the end it told him it’s his camera so why are you getting upset with me. He‘s a nice guy normally, just not in the heat of the moment. 

Anyway, just pehaps be aware of this and inform whoever might be bothered...


If he was trying to make a big deal of it, why not just set TC to ToD (which matches his wristwatch! ha) and be done with it?

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11 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


If he was trying to make a big deal of it, why not just set TC to ToD (which matches his wristwatch! ha) and be done with it?

 

Because once they switch to a non-SMTPE rate the TC display does whatever the hell it wants to. So it can suddenly be off by 3 hours. It’s irregular. I‘m always on ToD normally

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